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Poll on Elon's Ex-oil Tillerson Tweet

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Tam, Jan 25, 2017.

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Elon: "...Rex Tillerson has the potential to be an excellent Sec of State"

  1. I am a Tesla Owner/Reservation Holder/Share Holder and I think the tweet is fine.

    81.3%
  2. I am not a Tesla Owner/Reservation Holder/Share Holder and I think the tweet is fine.

    7.0%
  3. I am a Tesla Owner/Reservation Holder/Share Holder and I think Elon should not send that tweet.

    11.7%
  4. I am not a Tesla Owner/Reservation Holder/Share Holder and I think Elon should not send that tweet.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Elon sent a tweet:

    "@TheEconomist This may sound surprising coming from me, but I agree with The Economist. Rex Tillerson has the potential to be an excellent Sec of State."

    with the rationale that Rex Tillerson shares a common belief in climate change and carbon tax.

    I myself think that is illogical because Trump Administration is pro-business, pro-fossil fuel, pro-tax cuts.

    Trump has long claimed climate change as a hoax and particularly stated against carbon tax:

    [​IMG]
    Exxon continued to fund various climate denial organizations despite of its support for carbon tax since 2009.

    Tillerson has been dangling carbon tax for you to reach up and get it for years but Huffington Post said it best:

    “Exxon Supports A Carbon Tax Except When There Is A Vote On A Carbon Tax,”

    Some anti-Tillerson include:
    Sierra Club,
    Union of Concerned Scientists,
    League of Conservation Voters,
    Greenpeace,
    Environmental Defense Fund,
    350.org

    State Attorney Generals (including New York, Massachusetts, California) are investigating about Exxon knew about the science of climate change decades ago but continued to fund climate denial groups and deceived both shareholders and public as well.

    I am polling to see would you do the tweet if you were Elon Musk?

    Thanks!

    Tam
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  2. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #2 sandpiper, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    The old adage, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" applies here.

    What should Elon do? Should he start expounding on the incompetence and absurdity of the current US administration? Is that going to help Tesla? the EV industry? the environment?

    Donald Trump does favours for whomever he likes and whomever he thinks respects him. If he likes Elon, if he feels that Elon is supporting him, then he will do his best to support him back. You have an administration full of oil people. We need somebody there who is trusted, and who can support the other side. I can think of nobody better fit for the role than Elon. And I think he should commended for putting on his hip waders and heading out into the swamp to make friends with the slugs and gators.

    I rather suspect that in 4 years, when this is all over (hopefully over), Elon will need some therapy and a LONG shower.
     
    • Like x 8
    • Disagree x 1
  3. JoaoD

    JoaoD Member

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    I completely agree with you. There is nothing Elon can do about Trump being elected and who he brings with him. So there is no point in Elon trying to bring it down. Tesla has much more to gain from collaborating than rising up against Trump administration.

    And I also think Elon has the power to influence some decisions and balance the actions taken about the climate changes and energy sources.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 1
  4. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Elon's public appeasement might legitimize the Administration's step-by-step that furthers the legitimacy for the cause of fossil fuel industry:

    Deleting all references of climate change on the White House and EPA websites.

    Gag rules for National Park Service, EPA and Department of Agriculture.

    Orders for Keystone XL and Dakota Access oil pipelines

    Undermining government scientific community.

    These actions may be good for Tesla stock price for the short term but at the expense of putting Tesla brand at the risk of being tarnished.

    Thanks for participating in the poll and thanks so much for your inputs from all angles and perspectives.
     
  5. JoaoD

    JoaoD Member

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    You are welcome. What I was trying to defend is that Tesla has more to lose if they oppose the government than they have if they collaborate in order to try to reach some Tesla goals. I don't think Tesla will ever agree with all the decisions taken by the government, but maybe they can get to influence some positive decision like a carbon tax that may otherwise never happen if Tesla just simply stayed against the government and did not try to talk them into it.
    This said I don't think that Elon supporting or not the Trump government would prevent those actions you described or would suddenly change Trump's mind.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    That Rex Tillerson himself supports a carbon tax is another factor. Government usually is not strictly doctrinaire. It remains to be seen what President Trump will be like. From his first week it does not seem probable that what rex Tillerson thinks will make too much difference, but we'll see. It's entirely plausible to think that Mr. Tillerson is not rich enough to have much credibility with Mr. Trump.
     
  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Sometimes great failures come from decisions made based on a preferred reality, as opposed to actual reality. Our preferred reality is that Elon's opposition would have some positive effect on the Trump administration. Actual reality is that it would have a negative effect - posing significant risk to Tesla.

    We have, effectively, a petulant toddler holding a loaded revolver. We can't behave as though the toddler wouldn't consider pulling the trigger if you make yourself a target for their anger.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  8. James Anders

    James Anders Member

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    Incentives. Not taxes.
     
  9. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    "Potential" is one hell of a hedge word to use. Musk didn't say that Tillerson will be excellent, he said he had the "potential" to be excellent. Musk can now be disappointed if he isn't.
     
  10. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Sorry, but I don't think Tillerson is sincere at all in his commitment to a carbon tax. He's saying what he needs to say to appease the opposition. If he publicly lobbies in favor of a carbon tax while he is SOS that would be in direct contrast to the ideals of the new admin. It would, however, change my opinion of him.
     
  11. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    Do you want Elon to be critical of a new administration at the same time he is trying to build an all American, affordable car? As well as considering Tesla share-holders and Space X contracts. Trump is a businessman who looks at policy with pragmatic approach. Agree or not with Trump but he may be very good for the stock price
     
  12. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    The rationale for the tweet may not lie in a common belief with Tillerson at all. Staying engaged rather than alienating is likely the real rationale, as reflected in Elon's following comment:
     
    • Informative x 2
  13. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Doing Kremlinology on the White House, I believe the Tillerson faction is going to be opposed to the Bannon faction. The Bannon faction is a clear and present danger. Support for the Tillerson faction in this context is probably tactically correct.
     
    • Like x 3
  14. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    At least Tillerson has a potential to be a good Sec of State as he will not be stoodge for someone else.
     
  15. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    Right on. Musk said he was a good pick because of hes carbon tax support.
     
  16. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Elon has a chance to influence. A chance, not a certainty. But you know what would be certain? He'd have no chance to influence if he did not try.

    He's at the table. I have no doubt that if he determines things have evolved past the chance of influencing, he'll walk without apology. Do I like that fact that for some, he's lending this administration legitimacy by his presence? Yes, for some (I believe most people are capable of some level of critical thought).

    Do I believe he needs to be there? 100%. Elon will stay on the right side of history.
     
    • Like x 4
  17. macpacheco

    macpacheco Member

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    We need to keep one fact in mind. Donald Trump won't be impeached until he does something ridiculously obscene. Might not even be impeached then.
    Don't oppose Musk staying in the Trump's economic counsel. He'll be a voice of moderation in several topics, as well as many other CEOs. As long as he feels his input is causing even minor effect at the Trump administration, let him do it. And if he feels it no longer makes sense to be part of that counsel, let him resign from it, at his own accord.
    Just like Tillerson might be the most moderate SecState possible given Trump's ideological lunacy. I think Musk knows that any other alternative will be far worse. Just look at his deputy appointment. John Bolton is a flat out militaristic hawk that's ready to go to war in a blink of an eye.
    There are far, far, far worse appointments in Trump's cabinet. Like Education, Housing, EPA, Treasury, Energy and many other positions.
     
  18. harry

    harry Member

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    Some of the responses in this thread puzzle me. It appears that Musk's tweet was voluntary. If he had not commented at all, I don't see how that would have been seen as opposing the Trump-etts. Countless influential people haven't commented on Tillerson and they probably won't face any repercussions from staying silent. Elon's tweet smacks uncomfortably of toadying up.
     
  19. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    In the tweet Musk repeats his support for carbon tax - how is that even remotely like 'toadying up'.
     
  20. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    We're talking Impeachment? Geez, I guess giving the guy a chance is out the window.
    I'm sure this is not a view shared by many here but I am against ANY new tax, including a carbon tax. Yea I know it will supposedly be offset, but I live in the real world. Just like bridge taxes that will be eliminated (once paid off) or lowered to only cover maintenance. Now it's used for all roads etc,etc,etc. The gov't greed never stops.

    And for a science that is "settled" the numbers seem to be fudged again

    And now another climategate:
    • The Mail on Sunday can reveal a landmark paper exaggerated global warming
    • It was rushed through and timed to influence the Paris agreement on climate change
     

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