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Poll: Proper Usage of Superchargers

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by scaesare, Jun 12, 2015.

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Your understanding/inente of Supercharger Usage

  1. I DID understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon's confirmed such, I WILL comply

    82.9%
  2. I DID NOT understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon has clarified, I WILL comply

    6.2%
  3. I DID understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon's confirmed such, I will NOT comply

    5.7%
  4. I DID NOT understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon has clarified, I will NOT comply

    5.2%
  1. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    #1 scaesare, Jun 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
    There are a couple hot threads discussing the "proper" usage of Superchargers:

    Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes

    Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S

    The crux of much of the debate centers on two items:

    • Did Tesla intend (even if not explicitly stated) for the "Free, unlimited" supercharging to primarily support long-distance travel?
    • Is utilizing the supercharging network to avoid providing for your own daily charging needs (if you reasonably can) proper?

    Much of this is due to Elon's recent comments confirming Tesla's intent:

    Thus I thought it would be interesting to take a poll. It attempts to determine both what your original understanding was, as well as what you believe to be the correct course of action in light of Elon's more specific comments.

    Thus the choices are:

    • I DID understand from inception Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments confirm such, and I WILL comply
    • I DID NOT understand Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments clarify that and I WILL comply
    • I DID understand from inception Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments confirm such, however I will NOT comply
    • I DID NOT understand Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments clarify that, however I will NOT comply

    Let's see who understood what Tesla wanted all along... as well as who's going to play nicely.
     
  2. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    Note: there is no supercharger along my commute.
    Double note: I did charge for free at the Tesla store near my home last night
    and caught dinner in the mall. Then I spoke with some prospective owners
    giving them the owner's perspective.
     
  3. jacobp

    jacobp Member

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    I think it is called common sense. It is simply indisputable that everyone who bought a Tesla understood that they were supposed to install a home charging capability and that the superchargers were intended first and foremost for long distance travel. Of course, if a Tesla owner lives in a place where home charging is not possible (eg, apartment building) then supercharger use is fine. Or, if someone "needs" to use a supercharger then such use is fine too. But those that use a supercharger in lieu of spending the few bucks to charge at home for no reason other that saving those few bucks, well, shame on you.

    Of course, it is true that no one ever said that local supercharger use is prohibited. In fact, statements have been made saying unlimited supercharger use is free for life. But did those statements suspend anyone's common sense? C'mon people. You spent $100K on a car, and you want to jam up a supercharger site to save a few bucks? Be reasonable, be courteous, use your head.
     
  4. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    I didn't understand from Elon's comments that we were allowed to share owner experiences. Maybe on long trips while standing by the cars in order to show them the frunk, the center screen, etc., but definitely not at dinner. You see where this is going. Pretty soon everybody will be charging and sharing and eating and having a great time, and people will go out and buy a Tesla.

    I don't see this camaraderie going on at J1772 chargers. Leaf owners seem to be upset about having to wait hours instead of minutes, and, they have no frunk. What can you do with that??

    I have a feeling that MOST people will charge at a convenient home outlet, because its easier. Those that sadly don't have a ready outlet really need to use some form of charging, and will choose to charge for free -- why not? In my running around, I have met ONLY one person who was charging at the SC because it was 5 miles from his home. I said, "Really? You're saving $3! What a deal!" Their choice. All the rest of the people I meet at SCs are interested in grabbing a sandwich because "the car will be ready in 15 - 20 minutes and we don't have time". Or they will come over to tell me a funny story, and my car ends up with way more charge than I need to make it to the next SC. I can live with that.

    I say, to each their own. If they leave a phone number on the dash, and can move their car when it's full, there's not much problem.
     
  5. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    Incidentally, I think it's been well-acknowledged that Elon indicated that some superchargers were being installed within city limits for apartment/condo-dwellers who can't "reasonably provide for their own daily charging needs" (the verbiage in the initial post above) to use.

    As such, those folks aren't trying to avoid paying for their own charging, as such I'm not addressing that scenario in this poll...
     
  6. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    In my running around, I have met 4 people who were depending upon supercharging for daily driving. Two were condo / apartment dwellers. One apartment dweller who decided the supercharger location and apartment was a good match and he had a freelance business that required irregular longer drives.

    I've done a lot of driving and a reasonable amount of talking.

    I have also seem a few others who I suspect that was the case but can't confirm it.

     
  7. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    The issue of condo dwellers not receiving approval to install charging infrastructure is well documented. It's probably worse in some areas than others, but it is a big problem in Ontario, particularly Toronto. This city has a huge number of condos and many under construction. I understand there was a move afoot to create legislation requiring condo boards to allow owners to install charging infrastructure (at their own cost) but that it went nowhere.

    I know of several potential condo dwelling owners who have told me they are now more interested in the Model S or X with the Toronto Supercharger now on line because they would have a place to go and quickly top up like you would at a gas station. It's hard for me to know what to tell them. Over time, there could be a huge number of condo dwellers looking to use urban Superchargers as their gas stations.
     
  8. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    I agree, this is one of the real issues here. So far Tesla has in some ways avoided this problem because historically California at least, folks have strongly preferred single family homes; particularly those with higher incomes or wealth as we aren't all that dense. But that's is somewhat changing as denser places are more "in" now.

     
  9. KJD

    KJD Member

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    Every condo / apartment dweller that runs into this problem needs to read this thread on how to solve this problem.
    Condo Charging - Minimal cost installation and some questions
    These problems can be solved, if you are willing to put some effort into it.
     
  10. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    As I mentioned above, Tesla came to this awareness, and has added Superchargers to some urban locations to address this. (And again, are not those avoiding paying for their own electricity).

    I suspect that Tesla's stance is that as EV adoption rises home-charging infrastructure as an option, or even necessity, in many urban environments will begin to sprout up as well. It will take some time, and may never reach 100% penetration... but if sooner or later the majority of cars on the road end up being EV's, then it will make sense to accommodate folks in a variety of residence circumstances.

    Apartments building with garages may start adding circuits to attract renters. Ditto with condos. Curb-side lockable EVSE's or outlets could be an amenity for things like brownstone buildings, etc...


    EDIT:
    KJD's post above hit while I was composing mine... it's a good example of what I am talking about...
     
  11. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    With a lack of any by-laws or regulation, it isn't always that simple. There are some condo boards who are saying "no" for a multitude of reasons. Concerns over fires (yeah, I know), concerns that the building itself just doesn't have the capacity, concerns that if they do it for one, they may not be able to accommodate more, and on and on. It is a real problem and it exists. These boards' decisions are generally final and binding.
     
  12. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    The poll I started yesterday asks this question in a different way-- do Model S owners primarily do their local charging at home, elsewhere with outlet or EVSE, supercharger because they can't charge at home, or supercharger even though they could charge at home? As of now with 80 responses, only one owner is doing most of his local charging at a supercharger when he is able to charge at home. This unscientific survey result is consistent with such behavior being rare, on the order of 1% of owners.
     
  13. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    Hadn't seen yours previously... went and voted.

    Although our polls are similar, they do gauge slightly different things, so I think the responses to both are interesting... thanks.
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    For me, it's more convenient to charge at home--even if there was an SC nearby (and around here, avoiding toll roads more than pays for the electricity--our tolls are stratospheric). however, I really doubt Elon was referring to condo and apartment dwellers.
     
  15. robby

    robby Member

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    bonnie, I thought nothing could make me laugh more tonight than the monty python sketch you posted, but then I saw people here choosing option 3.
     
  16. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I almost spit out some food just now. :)
     
  17. Zextraterrestrial

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    some people might just like the number 3

    I would probably stop by the SC locally if it was near some place good I needed to stop at but I wouldn't use an SC and leave my car that was at a location that was impacted or had any sort of high use rate if I didn't need to charge there.
    At very rarely traveled superchargers I'd think it is good for advertising & public awareness. When Eureka gets one it will be used but not nearly at capacity and it probably will be empty 80% of the time at first without some local use.
     
  18. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    So, I've had PM conversations with 3 folks who voted for the third option: "I DID understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon's confirmed such, I will NOT comply".

    In a couple of those cases it's apparent the poll had not been clear that it didn't count the "occasional local use" as not complying with Elon's stated intent for the Superchargers. (The poll only allows for 100 characters per option).

    In one of those cases, the person has multiple EV's, and indeed charges regularly at home, but augments with a local supercharger occaionally when he can't reasonably charge both vehicles at the same time and needs the range.

    The fourth respondant to #3 I haven't heard from, but in looking at their other posts on the board, it appears they occasionally use a local Supercharger as well, but mainly charge at home.

    So, it's my opinion that the "abuse" Elon spoke of was those using Superchargers for their daily driving needs in order to avoid providing their own charging if they reasonably could.

    It appears that the folks who've voted #3 by and large are abiding by my understanding of Tesla's intent... I accept any responsibility for not having been clearer in the poll.
     
  19. preilly44

    preilly44 Member

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    I was one of the four people who voted I understand and will not comply. I think I misread or misunderstood it the first time. I have a HPWC in my garage which I use every night. I do supercharge once every couple months or so when I go to the mall that has a super charger. I don't think that's really what the poll meant though....

    I tried to change my response to the poll but I'm not sure how to.
     
  20. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Too late. You are forever doomed. :)
     

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