Poll: Proper Usage of Superchargers

[scaesare]

There are a couple hot threads discussing the "proper" usage of Superchargers:

Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes

Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S

The crux of much of the debate centers on two items:

• Did Tesla intend (even if not explicitly stated) for the "Free, unlimited" supercharging to primarily support long-distance travel?
• Is utilizing the supercharging network to avoid providing for your own daily charging needs (if you reasonably can) proper?

Much of this is due to Elon's recent comments confirming Tesla's intent:

"For the Superchargers, as we said in the initial press release, the Superchargers are free, it's basically free long distance for life, forever. Um, so free long distance forever is what the Superchargers are providing. Now, there are a few people who are, like, quite agressively using it for local Supercharging, um, and we'll sort of send them just a reminder note that it's cool to do this occasionally, but it's not, it's meant to be a long-distance thing. But it is Free Long Distance Forever"

Thus I thought it would be interesting to take a poll. It attempts to determine both what your original understanding was, as well as what you believe to be the correct course of action in light of Elon's more specific comments.

Thus the choices are:

• I DID understand from inception Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments confirm such, and I WILL comply
• I DID NOT understand Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments clarify that and I WILL comply
• I DID understand from inception Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments confirm such, however I will NOT comply
• I DID NOT understand Supercharging was intended for long-distance travel; Elon's comments clarify that, however I will NOT comply

Let's see who understood what Tesla wanted all along... as well as who's going to play nicely.

 

[EdA]

Note: there is no supercharger along my commute.
Double note: I did charge for free at the Tesla store near my home last night
and caught dinner in the mall. Then I spoke with some prospective owners
giving them the owner's perspective.

 

[jacobp]

I think it is called common sense. It is simply indisputable that everyone who bought a Tesla understood that they were supposed to install a home charging capability and that the superchargers were intended first and foremost for long distance travel. Of course, if a Tesla owner lives in a place where home charging is not possible (eg, apartment building) then supercharger use is fine. Or, if someone "needs" to use a supercharger then such use is fine too. But those that use a supercharger in lieu of spending the few bucks to charge at home for no reason other that saving those few bucks, well, shame on you.

Of course, it is true that no one ever said that local supercharger use is prohibited. In fact, statements have been made saying unlimited supercharger use is free for life. But did those statements suspend anyone's common sense? C'mon people. You spent $100K on a car, and you want to jam up a supercharger site to save a few bucks? Be reasonable, be courteous, use your head.

 

[roblab]

Note: there is no supercharger along my commute.
Double note: I did charge for free at the Tesla store near my home last night
and caught dinner in the mall. Then I spoke with some prospective owners
giving them the owner's perspective.

I didn't understand from Elon's comments that we were allowed to share owner experiences. Maybe on long trips while standing by the cars in order to show them the frunk, the center screen, etc., but definitely not at dinner. You see where this is going. Pretty soon everybody will be charging and sharing and eating and having a great time, and people will go out and buy a Tesla.

I don't see this camaraderie going on at J1772 chargers. Leaf owners seem to be upset about having to wait hours instead of minutes, and, they have no frunk. What can you do with that??

I have a feeling that MOST people will charge at a convenient home outlet, because its easier. Those that sadly don't have a ready outlet really need to use some form of charging, and will choose to charge for free -- why not? In my running around, I have met ONLY one person who was charging at the SC because it was 5 miles from his home. I said, "Really? You're saving $3! What a deal!" Their choice. All the rest of the people I meet at SCs are interested in grabbing a sandwich because "the car will be ready in 15 - 20 minutes and we don't have time". Or they will come over to tell me a funny story, and my car ends up with way more charge than I need to make it to the next SC. I can live with that.

I say, to each their own. If they leave a phone number on the dash, and can move their car when it's full, there's not much problem.

 

[scaesare]

Incidentally, I think it's been well-acknowledged that Elon indicated that some superchargers were being installed within city limits for apartment/condo-dwellers who can't "reasonably provide for their own daily charging needs" (the verbiage in the initial post above) to use.

As such, those folks aren't trying to avoid paying for their own charging, as such I'm not addressing that scenario in this poll...

 

[Owner]

In my running around, I have met 4 people who were depending upon supercharging for daily driving. Two were condo / apartment dwellers. One apartment dweller who decided the supercharger location and apartment was a good match and he had a freelance business that required irregular longer drives.

I've done a lot of driving and a reasonable amount of talking.

I have also seem a few others who I suspect that was the case but can't confirm it.

In my running around, I have met ONLY one person who was charging at the SC because it was 5 miles from his home.

 

[mknox]

Incidentally, I think it's been well-acknowledged that Elon indicated that some superchargers were being installed within city limits for apartment/condo-dwellers who can't "reasonably provide for their own daily charging needs" (the verbiage in the initial post above) to use.

As such, those folks aren't trying to avoid paying for their own charging, as such I'm not addressing that scenario in this poll...

The issue of condo dwellers not receiving approval to install charging infrastructure is well documented. It's probably worse in some areas than others, but it is a big problem in Ontario, particularly Toronto. This city has a huge number of condos and many under construction. I understand there was a move afoot to create legislation requiring condo boards to allow owners to install charging infrastructure (at their own cost) but that it went nowhere.

I know of several potential condo dwelling owners who have told me they are now more interested in the Model S or X with the Toronto Supercharger now on line because they would have a place to go and quickly top up like you would at a gas station. It's hard for me to know what to tell them. Over time, there could be a huge number of condo dwellers looking to use urban Superchargers as their gas stations.

 

[Owner]

I agree, this is one of the real issues here. So far Tesla has in some ways avoided this problem because historically California at least, folks have strongly preferred single family homes; particularly those with higher incomes or wealth as we aren't all that dense. But that's is somewhat changing as denser places are more "in" now.

Over time, there could be a huge number of condo dwellers looking to use urban Superchargers as their gas stations.

 

[KJD]

In my running around, I have met 4 people who were depending upon supercharging for daily driving. Two were condo / apartment dwellers. One apartment dweller who decided the supercharger location and apartment was a good match and he had a freelance business that required irregular longer drives.
I've done a lot of driving and a reasonable amount of talking.
I have also seem a few others who I suspect that was the case but can't confirm it.

Every condo / apartment dweller that runs into this problem needs to read this thread on how to solve this problem.
Condo Charging - Minimal cost installation and some questions
These problems can be solved, if you are willing to put some effort into it.

 

[scaesare]

As I mentioned above, Tesla came to this awareness, and has added Superchargers to some urban locations to address this. (And again, are not those avoiding paying for their own electricity).

I suspect that Tesla's stance is that as EV adoption rises home-charging infrastructure as an option, or even necessity, in many urban environments will begin to sprout up as well. It will take some time, and may never reach 100% penetration... but if sooner or later the majority of cars on the road end up being EV's, then it will make sense to accommodate folks in a variety of residence circumstances.

Apartments building with garages may start adding circuits to attract renters. Ditto with condos. Curb-side lockable EVSE's or outlets could be an amenity for things like brownstone buildings, etc...


EDIT: KJD's post above hit while I was composing mine... it's a good example of what I am talking about...

 

[mknox]

These problems can be solved, if you are willing to put some effort into it.

With a lack of any by-laws or regulation, it isn't always that simple. There are some condo boards who are saying "no" for a multitude of reasons. Concerns over fires (yeah, I know), concerns that the building itself just doesn't have the capacity, concerns that if they do it for one, they may not be able to accommodate more, and on and on. It is a real problem and it exists. These boards' decisions are generally final and binding.

 

[TexasEV]

The poll I started yesterday asks this question in a different way-- do Model S owners primarily do their local charging at home, elsewhere with outlet or EVSE, supercharger because they can't charge at home, or supercharger even though they could charge at home? As of now with 80 responses, only one owner is doing most of his local charging at a supercharger when he is able to charge at home. This unscientific survey result is consistent with such behavior being rare, on the order of 1% of owners.

 

[scaesare]

The poll I started yesterday asks this question in a different way-- do Model S owners primarily do their local charging at home, elsewhere with outlet or EVSE, supercharger because they can't charge at home, or supercharger even though they could charge at home? As of now with 80 responses, only one owner is doing most of his local charging at a supercharger when he is able to charge at home. This unscientific survey result is consistent with such behavior being rare, on the order of 1% of owners.

Hadn't seen yours previously... went and voted.

Although our polls are similar, they do gauge slightly different things, so I think the responses to both are interesting... thanks.

 

[jerry33]

For me, it's more convenient to charge at home--even if there was an SC nearby (and around here, avoiding toll roads more than pays for the electricity--our tolls are stratospheric). however, I really doubt Elon was referring to condo and apartment dwellers.

 

[robby]

bonnie, I thought nothing could make me laugh more tonight than the monty python sketch you posted, but then I saw people here choosing option 3.

 

[bonnie]

bonnie, I thought nothing could make me laugh more tonight than the monty python sketch you posted, but then I saw people here choosing option 3.

I almost spit out some food just now.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

some people might just like the number 3

I would probably stop by the SC locally if it was near some place good I needed to stop at but I wouldn't use an SC and leave my car that was at a location that was impacted or had any sort of high use rate if I didn't need to charge there.
At very rarely traveled superchargers I'd think it is good for advertising & public awareness. When Eureka gets one it will be used but not nearly at capacity and it probably will be empty 80% of the time at first without some local use.

 

[scaesare]

So, I've had PM conversations with 3 folks who voted for the third option: "I DID understand Supercharging for long-distance travel; Elon's confirmed such, I will NOT comply".

In a couple of those cases it's apparent the poll had not been clear that it didn't count the "occasional local use" as not complying with Elon's stated intent for the Superchargers. (The poll only allows for 100 characters per option).

In one of those cases, the person has multiple EV's, and indeed charges regularly at home, but augments with a local supercharger occaionally when he can't reasonably charge both vehicles at the same time and needs the range.

The fourth respondant to #3 I haven't heard from, but in looking at their other posts on the board, it appears they occasionally use a local Supercharger as well, but mainly charge at home.

So, it's my opinion that the "abuse" Elon spoke of was those using Superchargers for their daily driving needs in order to avoid providing their own charging if they reasonably could.

It appears that the folks who've voted #3 by and large are abiding by my understanding of Tesla's intent... I accept any responsibility for not having been clearer in the poll.

 

[preilly44]

I was one of the four people who voted I understand and will not comply. I think I misread or misunderstood it the first time. I have a HPWC in my garage which I use every night. I do supercharge once every couple months or so when I go to the mall that has a super charger. I don't think that's really what the poll meant though....

I tried to change my response to the poll but I'm not sure how to.

 

[bonnie]

I tried to change my response to the poll but I'm not sure how to.

Too late. You are forever doomed.