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POLL: SR/SR+ supercharging speed expectations

What do you think the max SR/SR+ supercharging speed after the upcoming bump

  • 120 - 139kw

    Votes: 8 21.1%
  • 140 - 159kw

    Votes: 11 28.9%
  • 160 - 179kw

    Votes: 17 44.7%
  • 180kw+

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .

Pbaker609

Member
Apr 28, 2019
58
87
Marlton, NJ
Haven't seen much speculation about the upcoming supercharging speed improvement for SR & SR+ Model 3's. What do you expect the new max speed to be since we're currently capped at 100 - 102kw? 250kw doesn't seem feasible given the size of our battery packs but I'm curious to hear your expectations.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,807
8,422
Boise, ID
I'm unclear about what you are asking? I think you might be misunderstanding the concept.
I doubt it. I have been hearing this a few times that the long range version of Model 3 has all of the stuff enabled to take advantage of the 250kW of the v3 Superchargers, but for some reason, the software of the SR and SR+ is still very held back, getting just barely over 100kW, when it should be a lot higher, but not quite at the long range speeds.
 

matija

Member
Mar 15, 2019
15
28
Slovenia, EU
SR+ will be 168kW to match 3 LR C-rate. No poll needed, it’s not a democracy.

Hey, can you provide some math ? I love your posts, which are always tech supported.

I was doing some calculations few days back, let me rephrase:
1. 250kW peak power from LR with 80.5kWh battery means 3.1C (250/80,5=3.1 if using decimal cutting, not rounding)
2. thus, using 54.75kWh brutto capacity from SR+ this nets us: 54.75 * 3.106 = 170kW of peak power at low SoC.
3. however, there might be just lower SW cap that would bring SR+ on par with V2 SC, thus limiting it to 150kW

I see two plausible outcomes here: 150kW or 170kW.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,889
13,635
San Diego
Hey, can you provide some math ? I love your posts, which are always tech supported.

I was doing some calculations few days back, let me rephrase:
1. 250kW peak power from LR with 80.5kWh battery means 3.1C (250/80,5=3.1 if using decimal cutting, not rounding)
2. thus, using 54.75kWh brutto capacity from SR+ this nets us: 54.75 * 3.106 = 170kW of peak power at low SoC.
3. however, there might be just lower SW cap that would bring SR+ on par with V2 SC, thus limiting it to 150kW

I see two plausible outcomes here: 150kW or 170kW.

LR pack is 46p96s. SR pack is 31p96s.

So 31/46 * 250kW = 168.5kW

I agree it is possible they might maintain an artificial 150kW limit (for now) until V3 Superchargers are more common. It’s of course of little consequence to get 168kW vs 150kW, but every bit of throughput at Superchargers matters at busy locations.
 
Last edited:

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,255
4,373
SoCal
LR pack is 46p96s. SR pack is 31p96s.

So 31/46 * 250kW = 168.5kW

I agree it is possible they might maintain an artificial 150kW limit (for now) until V3 Superchargers are more common. It’s of course of little consequence to get 168kW vs 150kW, but every bit of throughput at Superchargers matters at busy locations.
Alan’s got it.

In all fairness, Tesla could allow a higher c-rate on the SR+ but it’s not likely as that rate is already pretty rare for the LR. The battery conditions have to be pretty darn optimal for an LR car to see 250kW. Likewise, it’ll be rare for an SR+ car to see above 165kW.
 

matija

Member
Mar 15, 2019
15
28
Slovenia, EU
Official:
 

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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,794
1,792
Richland, WA
I posted an SR taper. It’s basically equal to the SR+ up to 92%. I can go from 10-100% in about 35 minutes, and now that we’re getting 170kw supercharging, can’t wait to see how much that time gets cut.

With existing information it looks like around 52% SOC the profile will match the current one.

Estimating about 4 minutes faster then now from 4% SOC to 52% SOC on a V2 supercharger (total time roughly 10 minutes 30 seconds). After that the charge will take roughly the same duration as now.

V3 doesn’t seem to offer much of a benefit... about 40 seconds faster for that same SOC range. It only maintains a peak of about 170kW until about 25% SOC.
 
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Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,255
4,373
SoCal
With existing information it looks like around 52% SOC the profile will match the current one.

Estimating about 4 minutes faster then now from 4% SOC to 52% SOC on a V2 supercharger (total time roughly 10 minutes 30 seconds). After that the charge will take roughly the same duration as now.

V3 doesn’t seem to offer much of a benefit... about 40 seconds faster for that same SOC range. It only maintains a peak of about 170kW until about 25% SOC.
Those are good numbers. When starting out very low, it'll now be about 4 min savings on V2 with <1 min additional savings on V3, as long as everything else is equal.

The real benefit that V3 provides is much more consistent power. No shared stalls and pedestals that won't overhead as easily.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,255
4,373
SoCal
To summarize the benefit of this change to the SR/SR+ charging profile:
  1. The limit increase will only be seen below ~50% SOC.
  2. The time savings will be on the order of 4 minutes, or ~1 minute for each 10% below 50% that you start.
Previously, under ideal conditions, it took 16 minutes to charge from 0-50%. Now it'll take about 12 minutes. Expect less of a difference under typical conditions.
 
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SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,583
16,720
New Mexico
To summarize the benefit of this change to the SR/SR+ charging profile:
  1. The limit increase will only be seen below ~50% SOC.
  2. The time savings will be on the order of 4 minutes, or ~1 minute for each 10% below 50% that you start.
Previously, under ideal conditions, it took 16 minutes to charge from 0-50%. Now it'll take about 12 minutes. Expect less of a difference under typical conditions.
We are a spoiled bunch. A 25% drop in charging time for the under 50% SoC session is really impressive. It also translates into an up to 33% throughput increase at congested Superchargers for these cars.
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,794
1,792
Richland, WA
We are a spoiled bunch. A 25% drop in charging time for the under 50% SoC session is really impressive. It also translates into an up to 33% throughput increase at congested Superchargers for these cars.

Yep, and now we’re at least 40kW faster peak than the Kona and Niro EVs (which are priced fairly close) and almost double the rate of the Bolt... all on a very large existing infrastructure!
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,583
16,720
New Mexico
Yep, and now we’re at least 40kW faster peak than the Kona and Niro EVs (which are priced fairly close) and almost double the rate of the Bolt... all on a very large existing infrastructure!
About 2.5x the kona (and I presume Niro) and over 3x the Bolt. I think it shakes out this way by Amps:

Bolt: 125 Amps (maybe 150 ?)
Kona: 200 Amps
SR+: 500 Amps
 

vickh

Active Member
Dec 16, 2018
3,151
709
az
Yep, and now we’re at least 40kW faster peak than the Kona and Niro EVs (which are priced fairly close) and almost double the rate of the Bolt... all on a very large existing infrastructure!

and almost no existing Hyundai or GM infrastructure. (other than dealers)

One Hyundai dealer in AZ even tried to talk me out of the Kona EV telling me there were only 3 charging stations in the state (all govt.) I think he meant CNG
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
726
Germany
and almost no existing Hyundai or GM infrastructure. (other than dealers)

One Hyundai dealer in AZ even tried to talk me out of the Kona EV telling me there were only 3 charging stations in the state (all govt.) I think he meant CNG
They do that because these are the HQ instructions directly from Korea - they can't mass produce the cars and the margin is low. They want you to buy ICE or hybrid where the margins are high and they have you in for yearly inspections. More profit to them. This is the reason I turned down Hyundai/KIA - they don't wanna push EVs.
 
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