POLL: vibration felt when slightly accelerating refresh Mode S Plaid or LR

[ytwytw]

I have 2017 Model X and 2022 Model S
The old MX shuddering is much worse than MS
the vibration is quite light on MS, i dont think i worry that too much until it becomes unfixable just like my MX does

 

[Jameslook]

@n2mb_racing Right. This thread is focused on just the 40-50mph vibration you describe, and should remain that way, IMHO.

100% agree.

 

[HighPotential]

Another report, same as before. Perhaps a clue: Everything exactly the same (time, temperature, speed, incline, throttle) except the surfaces. 36mph slight vibration clearly less on harder, smoother concrete surface.

FWIW, I highly doubt it is a rotational source. More likely a chassis resonance. Could also be pulses from the inverter/motors? Someone with the right tools could surely obtain the frequency. That would be a big clue.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Another report, same as before. Perhaps a clue: Everything exactly the same (time, temperature, speed, incline, throttle) except the surfaces. 36mph slight vibration clearly less on harder, smoother concrete surface.

FWIW, I highly doubt it is a rotational source. More likely a chassis resonance. Could also be pulses from the inverter/motors? Someone with the right tools could surely obtain the frequency. That would be a big clue.

Could be, though it doesn't resonate when the front motor isn't being driven. In track mode with rear torque bias, it goes away.

 

[mswlogo]

Another report, same as before. Perhaps a clue: Everything exactly the same (time, temperature, speed, incline, throttle) except the surfaces. 36mph slight vibration clearly less on harder, smoother concrete surface.

FWIW, I highly doubt it is a rotational source. More likely a chassis resonance. Could also be pulses from the inverter/motors? Someone with the right tools could surely obtain the frequency. That would be a big clue.

This is the kind of thinking this issue needs.

Need better data to figure it out.

Even though this thread is focused on the consistent 45 mph vibration. The startup vibration that some notice could be related.

It could be just the right conditions that the inverter pulsing resonates.

I forget if I mentioned it earlier in this thread. But way back when Model 3 was released I read that permanent magnet motors were harder to pulse smoothly at low speeds. It was part of the reason they kept AC motors for so long.

Can’t help wonder if this is something to do with motor pulsing. Or the amount of power needed is pulsing.

That does not fit with it taking 1000 or two miles to show up and the temporary fix with new shafts not showing it. But it could. New shaft might have slight difference in load when new. Also once a little bit of play develops. The motor pulsing might have either a means to feel it or that little bit of play confuses the drive system of how much drive it should be using from one fraction of a second to the next. It also fits that hard acceleration doesn’t show it.

I bet long term there will be a software fix.

I’m sure the dynamics here get really complicated.

 

[n2mb_racing]

This is the kind of thinking this issue needs.

Need better data to figure it out.

Even though this thread is focused on the consistent 45 mph vibration. The startup vibration that some notice could be related.

It could be just the right conditions that the inverter pulsing resonates.

I forget if I mentioned it earlier in this thread. But way back when Model 3 was released I read that permanent magnet motors were harder to pulse smoothly at low speeds. It was part of the reason they kept AC motors for so long.

Can’t help wonder if this is something to do with motor pulsing. Or the amount of power needed is pulsing.

That does not fit with it taking 1000 or two miles to show up and the temporary fix with new shafts not showing it. But it could. New shaft might have slight difference in load when new. Also once a little bit of play develops. The motor pulsing might have either a means to feel it or that little bit of play confuses the drive system of how much drive it should be using from one fraction of a second to the next. It also fits that hard acceleration doesn’t show it.

I bet long term there will be a software fix.

I’m sure the dynamics here get really complicated.

Maybe? Supposedly yes, getting the torque ripple under control in permanent magnet motors is hard. But, the motors are nearly identical to the Model Y motors, so I'd assume they have this worked out pretty well. Except that the carbon fiber wrap might have reduced rotational mass, making the control slightly more difficult / need to be retuned.

If it was software, I also can't explain why ~half the cars have it and half don't. I drove a '22 LR model S that really didn't have it, while my '21 Plaid certainly does...

Well, anyway, in the meantime I'm trying to get my other issues fixed, like the passenger door being hard to close and the console cubby light. I'm on my fourth service visit for those... Hopefully later Tesla will figure out a fix for the vibrations.

 

[mswlogo]

Maybe? Supposedly yes, getting the torque ripple under control in permanent magnet motors is hard. But, the motors are nearly identical to the Model Y motors, so I'd assume they have this worked out pretty well. Except that the carbon fiber wrap might have reduced rotational mass, making the control slightly more difficult / need to be retuned.

If it was software, I also can't explain why ~half the cars have it and half don't. I drove a '22 LR model S that really didn't have it, while my '21 Plaid certainly does...

Well, anyway, in the meantime I'm trying to get my other issues fixed, like the passenger door being hard to close and the console cubby light. I'm on my fourth service visit for those... Hopefully later Tesla will figure out a fix for the vibrations.

I thought Model Y was the same as Model 3 (one AC and one Permanent), but I have not followed it closely. The subtle dynamics between each vehicle could be very different.

But as pointed out it could be a lot of variables involved. Temperature, tires, psi, road etc.

P.S. One owner found the door gasket was routed wrong and rerouted it himself. Problem solved closing door. Sorry forgot which thread. PM me if your interested and can’t find it.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I thought Model Y was the same as Model 3 (one AC and one Permanent), but I have not followed it closely. The subtle dynamics between each vehicle could be very different.

But as pointed out it could be a lot of variables involved. Temperature, tires, psi, road etc.

P.S. One owner found the door gasket was routed wrong and rerouted it himself. Problem solved closing door. Sorry forgot which thread. PM me if your interested and can’t find it.

Ah, you are right. Model 3 and Y the "rear electric motor is an Internal Permanent Magnet Synchronous Reluctance Motor (IPM-SynRM), while the front electric motor is an induction motor".

The three motors in the plaid are all permanent-magnet synchronous AC machines. They are very similar to the rear motor in the Model Y, which I think is slightly more powerful than the rear motor in the Model 3. If you look at the munro teardown videos and the other ones, it's seems pretty clear they just took three of them and bolted them together. The motor control boards in the plaid even say model 3 or Y on them.

Thanks about the gasket. My problem might be different, I'm referring to the outer door gasket. There's some double-sided tape that holds it in place and mine won't stick.

 

[Demonhunter]

Now Im wondering if I have the issue. 2022 LR with about 500 miles.
In "insane" mode (Havent even tried other modes yet) when I go 90% or full throttle, wheel straight ahead, dry pavement, etc? I can feel "something" in the steering wheel, BUT I always thought it was traction control combined with front end getting light. I also feel the same thing if Im doing say, 30mph, then floor it fully. But its not vibration in the seat nor console. It also ONLY happens under those conditions. Light to moderate acceleration never produces any noise/vibration/shudder, etc. And now that I think about it, my 2017 90D with only 11k miles exhibited the same behavior

So do I have the vibration issue? Or I dont?

I don't think you do, It's with lighter foot on accelerator and starts at like 38MPH - 85ish, very easy to replicate if driving at highway speed up a long steep uphill climb, the extra pressure it takes to maintain highway speed on the uphill sticks you squarely in the vibration zone. If you give it a little more foot pressure it goes away, however then your quickly heading toward a speeding ticket. It feels like haptic vibration only through the pedal, yoke and center console at the same time. Been to service twice, they even let me take out a MSLR that was just unloaded from a truck, it had it worse than mine. I told them they should not be allowed to sell that car since now they know it has an issue. I'm sure they still did and maybe that owner is posting on this thread as well.

 

[Jameslook]

I don't think you do, It's with lighter foot on accelerator and starts at like 38MPH - 85ish, very easy to replicate if driving at highway speed up a long steep uphill climb, the extra pressure it takes to maintain highway speed on the uphill sticks you squarely in the vibration zone. If you give it a little more foot pressure it goes away, however then your quickly heading toward a speeding ticket. It feels like haptic vibration only through the pedal, yoke and center console at the same time. Been to service twice, they even let me take out a MSLR that was just unloaded from a truck, it had it worse than mine. I told them they should not be allowed to sell that car since now they know it has an issue. I'm sure they still did and maybe that owner is posting on this thread as well.

Wow, the brand new LR also had it. I wonder if Tesla is even working on this at all.

 

[jebinc]

Wow, the brand new LR also had it. I wonder if Tesla is even working on this at all.

They don’t appear to be as they consider it a “normal characteristic of the model, specifically”…

 

[Demonhunter]

This is the kind of thinking this issue needs.

Need better data to figure it out.

Even though this thread is focused on the consistent 45 mph vibration. The startup vibration that some notice could be related.

It could be just the right conditions that the inverter pulsing resonates.

I forget if I mentioned it earlier in this thread. But way back when Model 3 was released I read that permanent magnet motors were harder to pulse smoothly at low speeds. It was part of the reason they kept AC motors for so long.

Can’t help wonder if this is something to do with motor pulsing. Or the amount of power needed is pulsing.

That does not fit with it taking 1000 or two miles to show up and the temporary fix with new shafts not showing it. But it could. New shaft might have slight difference in load when new. Also once a little bit of play develops. The motor pulsing might have either a means to feel it or that little bit of play confuses the drive system of how much drive it should be using from one fraction of a second to the next. It also fits that hard acceleration doesn’t show it.

I bet long term there will be a software fix.

I’m sure the dynamics here get really complicated.

Doesn’t only happen at the low speeds 38-45, In fact for me it’s most intense from 69-78 mph. It was occurring from day one so, my guess is because it is only under specific amount of acceleration for most it takes 1000 Milesish to get used to the car and notice it. Agree with the resonance theory. It somewhat reminds me of a twin prop plane when the props are out of sync. I’m this the frequency is much higher. Feels like some sort of tuning could potentially solve. I still recommend not dropping 100k+ on model s. It’s that annoying for me.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Doesn’t only happen at the low speeds 38-45, In fact for me it’s most intense from 69-78 mph. It was occurring from day one so, my guess is because it is only under specific amount of acceleration for most it takes 1000 Milesish to get used to the car and notice it. Agree with the resonance theory. It somewhat reminds me of a twin prop plane when the props are out of sync. I’m this the frequency is much higher. Feels like some sort of tuning could potentially solve. I still recommend not dropping 100k+ on model s. It’s that annoying for me.

Mine is mostly between 40-50 mph. Very little at highway speeds. With the car lowered, it doesn't vibrate at all on local roads. But, it still resonates merging onto the highway as I accelerate through 40-50 mph.

It is a bummer. I tell everyone not to buy until this and the yoke buzz is fixed.

 

[jebinc]

Doesn’t only happen at the low speeds 38-45, In fact for me it’s most intense from 69-78 mph. It was occurring from day one so, my guess is because it is only under specific amount of acceleration for most it takes 1000 Milesish to get used to the car and notice it. Agree with the resonance theory. It somewhat reminds me of a twin prop plane when the props are out of sync. I’m this the frequency is much higher. Feels like some sort of tuning could potentially solve. I still recommend not dropping 100k+ on model s. It’s that annoying for me.

Yep, beyond annoying.

 

[WhitePlaid]

I noticed this issue when my new Plaid had less than 1000 miles. It's been checked over, twice, and I'm supposed to accept the fact that engineering "doesn't know what causes it (But its SAFE - How can they say that if they don't know what causes it?) and their working on it and will be in touch. I'd be interested to know, of the Model S Plaid and LR Refresh vehicles, how many have the wheel and tire package?

 

[n2mb_racing]

I noticed this issue when my new Plaid had less than 1000 miles. It's been checked over, twice, and I'm supposed to accept the fact that engineering "doesn't know what causes it (But its SAFE - How can they say that if they don't know what causes it?) and their working on it and will be in touch. I'd be interested to know, of the Model S Plaid and LR Refresh vehicles, how many have the wheel and tire package?

Which wheel and tire package?

 

[WhitePlaid]

Off topic but would like your opinion on the Lucid Air due out in the coming months. Rumor has it that the Lucid Air surpasses the Model S.

I find it ugly, personally but it also has exhibits a number of graphical and functional glitches. It needs cellular service for the navigation system to work, the infotainment is slow to respond, the camera resolution is bad. I could go on and on. Plus it doesn't have the Tesla infrastructure. Being a new vehicle from a brand new company makes me a little skittish too. But thats me, it took me 10 years to feel comfortable buying a Tesla.

 

[WhitePlaid]

Which wheel and tire package?

21" Arachnid wheels and low profile tires.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I have them. But some people with the 19s also have the vibration. And even with aftermarket wheels.

 

[jebinc]

I noticed this issue when my new Plaid had less than 1000 miles. It's been checked over, twice, and I'm supposed to accept the fact that engineering "doesn't know what causes it (But its SAFE - How can they say that if they don't know what causes it?) and their working on it and will be in touch. I'd be interested to know, of the Model S Plaid and LR Refresh vehicles, how many have the wheel and tire package?

Standard line of BS I’ve been hearing for six months now. They can’t be working on it too hard, if at all. Remember, it took SEVEN long years for them to address the legacy model S shutter issue, and only “sort of”.