Ease? Yes. However, right now the media HATES Tesla with a passion. The moment they remove this nag it will be all over the news. Then a wreck happens and then it’s all over. (Also by next month he probably meant February, which actually means December 2024.)
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Poll: Will hands free driving be a big win for Tesla?
- Thread starter DanCar
- Start date
The media doesn't necessarily hate Tesla, it's just that Tesla doesn't pay any media outlets for ads. It's difficult to report on Honda's phantom braking investigation by NHTSA when Honda is paying you millions. So Tesla gets the spotlight and crashes are sexy for clicks.
dachshund
Member
Well, a couple of them do. Most have the equivalent of autopilot - lane centering and adaptive cruise control.
I admit I usually follow Tesla's progress with FSD and didn't realize other cars had self driving, with or without hands-on. Why, then, is Tesla's FSD so controversial? California has a law against calling it "FSD". Any FSD-related crash is big news. People have been holding onto their Teslas for years without FSD being available.
I guess I'm in a bubble.
Edit: some of my questions answered while I was typing, above......
I don't believe Tesla makes business decisions based on what the media may think or say. Instead, I suspect that it's biggest concern is whether X can be implemented without increasing safety risks or legal liability.
Now whether Tesla takes this step "next month" is anyone's guess, but I'll go out on a limb and predict that they will do so far before robotaxis, etc.
Eliminating the nag != hands free driving. In 3+ year of Tesla ownership I have found the nag has a near 100% false positive rate for me, and reduces my ability to pay attention to traffic. I keep my hands on the wheel close to 100% of the time when using AP, NOAP, and FSDb
KArnold
Active Member
Actually, that's my point. Thank you for articulating that for me. Good thing I have all the hardware I'll ever need for FSD! Personally, I'll hold them to a free retrofit. The FSDb/MCU1 guys have inspired me!
Don't get distracted by these types of questions.
The question needs to be when Tesla will take liability for accidents when FSD/Autopilot is enabled. That's the key question that nobody is asking.
The question needs to be when Tesla will take liability for accidents when FSD/Autopilot is enabled. That's the key question that nobody is asking.
Agreed. Especially if FSD is “exponentially safer than a human driver”.
Show and prove, Elon.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
IMO, the "safer than a human driver" is just a talking point Elon likes to use because it makes FSD sound great. What Elon really means is "safer than a human driver as long as the driver is supervising the system and taking over to prevent any crashes". I doubt Elon has any intention of assuming liability for FSD. It's better for Tesla to keep the liability on the human driver and just claim the system is safer. That way, Tesla can have its cake and eat it too as the saying goes.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's not what she is saying. She is not saying that no vehicles should ever be allowed to exceed the legal speed limit. In context, she is saying that L2 systems should not be allowed to be hands-free AND exceed the speed limit. Her point being that in order to make L2 safer, that the driver should be required to keep at least one hand on the wheel AND the L2 should not exceed the legal speed limit. She is only against L2 being hands-free and also exceeding the legal speed limit because she thinks that going hands-free and exceeding the speed limit at the same time, increases the risk if the L2 messes up. For example, if you are going 90 mph on the highway and the L2 messes up, you can probably take back control in time if you have your hands on the wheel. But if you are going 90 mph on the highway and you are hands-free, you are much less likely to be able to take back control in time if the L2 messes up. I happen to agree with her. And she is also right that there is no evidence that L2 hands-free systems are as safe or safer than hands-on systems.
I do not interpret her statement that way.
After the last comma, she says keep one hand on the wheel and the car should not exceed the speed limit. So even though a person is holding the wheel, the car should not be allowed to exceed the speed limit if a system that provides lateral and longitudinal control is enabled.
That effectively makes the tech useless in real-world scenarios.
I personally think FSD has a very long way to go before I will ever use it with any frequency, but we need the people influencing policy to either have hard data or common sense, preferably both. Missy has neither IMO.
After the last comma, she says keep one hand on the wheel and the car should not exceed the speed limit. So even though a person is holding the wheel, the car should not be allowed to exceed the speed limit if a system that provides lateral and longitudinal control is enabled.
That effectively makes the tech useless in real-world scenarios.
I personally think FSD has a very long way to go before I will ever use it with any frequency, but we need the people influencing policy to either have hard data or common sense, preferably both. Missy has neither IMO.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Correct. She is saying that L2 should be hands-on and not exceed the speed the limit. That is also what I said she said.
No it does not. There is plenty of driving that is at or below the legal speed limit. I would also remind you that exceeding the legal speed limit is against the law. Sure there are exceptions but if the police catch you, you will get a ticket and could lose your license. Exceeding the speed limit is not some normal thing that you have to do when driving.
Zilla91
Active Member
A more realistic poll would be “will Tesla actually have hands free driving within the next 24 months?”
The answer to which would be a pretty emphatic “no”. It’s just not going to happen with any of the cars currently on the road.
The answer to which would be a pretty emphatic “no”. It’s just not going to happen with any of the cars currently on the road.
But thats not what the CEO states. You are attempting to alter his words (what you THINK Elon "really means") to suit your perspective.
Here are just some of his exact, specific words. From 2021.
"Tesla Full Self-Driving will work at a safety level well above that of the average driver this year, of that I am confident"
And notice he doesnt call it "Full Self Driving Capability" nor "FSDb". He clearly says, Full Self-Driving. Nor does he say "will need assistance from the driver". Elon is quite clear in what he states. Many of you need to have more faith in his words vs attempting to constantly twist them..
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Well, maybe Elon did really believe, in his "optimism", that FSD would be safer than average human without driver supervision in 2021. But that was another false prediction. He has been consistently wrong about FSD.
I'm thinking you misunderstand. Hands free, does not mean you don't have to pay attention / be vigilant. Hands free doesn't mean you aren't liable if the car crashes. It is misleading, but term started with GM version of autopilot. All it means in this context is that you are not nagged to keep hands on the wheel, and there is a camera based system that monitors you and nags you, perhaps to put your hands on the wheel at that point if it think you are not paying attention.
But if we change subjects and talk about full self driving , where you don't have to pay attention, then I agree it is years away. We will get the first inkling of that when Tesla enables that for stop and go traffic on freeways.
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Just keep this in mind..
The camera can clearly see when we're not paying attention to the road, hence the "Please pay attention to the road" nag when we look down. So basically the cabin camera is being used as a punishment instead of a driver aid. If the camera can already tell when we're looking down, why not use it as a feature and allow hands free driving when it can already detect the driver is looking at the road?
The camera can clearly see when we're not paying attention to the road, hence the "Please pay attention to the road" nag when we look down. So basically the cabin camera is being used as a punishment instead of a driver aid. If the camera can already tell when we're looking down, why not use it as a feature and allow hands free driving when it can already detect the driver is looking at the road?
It's obvious that's where Tesla is heading - at least for those cars with a cabin camera. They'll do it in steps to be cautious.
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