Poll: Will hands free driving be a big win for Tesla?

[JulienW]

Cars that use cameras to gauge driver attention when an ADAS is engaged always put the cameras on the steering column, pointed directly at the driver. It's not clear to me that Tesla's cabin camera, mounted above the interior rear view mirror, can get a good enough view of the drivers eyes to work as well as these.

Actually those aren't cameras. They are IR transmitters (photodiodes) and IR sensors. Tesla is TRYING to use a standard camera but it will never work as well as an IR transmitter/sensor.

 

[DanCar]

... I always keep at least one hand on the wheel. This allows me to stop the car from suddenly swerving due to a hardware or software malfunction. ...

I haven't had an unexpected swerve problem. Have had it doing bad lane changes, but there is plenty of notice for that. 40% of the issues is the car stopping. 25% are jerky manuveuvers. 20% is going too fast. 15% is bad lane changes. None of those issues seem to matter much for keeping a tight grip on the wheel. I keep my hand on the wheel, but the light touch is missed often.

 

[dramsey]

Actually those aren't cameras. They are IR transmitters (photodiodes) and IR sensors. Tesla is TRYING to use a standard camera but it will never work as well as an IR transmitter/sensor.

True, there are IR light sources in the module. But they're using cameras to determine where your eyes are pointing, not just measuring the reflectance of the IR...

 

[eli_]

Camera sensors are sensitive to IR light by default, normally IR filters are added for image quality reasons.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I voted "maybe".

It will probably depend on how safe the system is. Certainly, if the camera driver monitoring works well enough and we don't see an increase in accidents using hands-free FSD, then I think it will be a big win. Tesla will be able to say that they have released hands-free FSD with supervision to a lot of vehicles, to a large ODD, that is safe enough. That would be huge. It would certain put Tesla way ahead of other L2 hands-free systems like Super Cruise or Blue Cruise. But if we do see an increase in accidents, I think we will see regulators come down hard on Tesla. In that scenario, it won't be a win for Tesla since the public will view Tesla as releasing a bad and unsafe hands-free FSD system. I think the condition that hands-free will only be an option for users with more than 10k FSD Beta miles is an attempt to mitigate risk by limiting hands-free to the most experienced users. And by the time, most users get to 10k miles, FSD Beta may be on a newer and safer version. So it might be fine.

It will be interesting to see how good V11 is. On the current FSD Beta, I've had a few instances where if I had not intervened, it might have caused an accident. But most of my interventions are from bad driving that was not necessarily safety critical. For example, jerky turns, waiting too long to make a turn, not moving over to the turn-only lane quick enough. The instances where I intervened and it was safety critical was when FSD Beta made a turn too tight and almost went into incoming traffic, or creeping forward into cross traffic. Overall, I would rate the current FSD Beta as below an average human driver.

Also, based on Elon's tweet about an update coming in Jan, I wonder if the hands-free option will come with the V11 release. If so, that would make the V11 release a really big deal, arguably the biggest FSD update ever. It would not just be single stack with the car finally handling all driving, highway and non-highway, with the same FSD stack but it would allow hands-free for the first time. So from a PR point of view, it could be a big win for Tesla. And it could result in an increase in FSD sales. So it could be a big win financially.

It is nowhere near ready for hands free driving. I have the latest FSD and it's self driving is awful

 

[EVNow]

I have the latest FSD ...

You do realize all of us have it too, right ... infact some 280k drivers do.

 

[DanCar]

It is nowhere near ready for hands free driving. I have the latest FSD and it's self driving is awful

Hands free does not mean you don't pay attention and take correct action when necessary.
Hands free means: must remain paranoid and take action in an instant if the car is doing something you don't like.

Agree FSD, fool self driving, is not great. I only use it 40% of the time. Easier to drive myself. When it is not rainy I use it more. I don't like wipers going full speed with modest sprinkle. Most useful stopped at a traffic light. Enjoy being able to tune out completely and start paying attention when car starts moving.

Poll results if we remove the maybe's:

yes	72	51.06%
no	50	35.46%
autopilot	19	13.48%

Poll results if we lump "do it for autopilot" into yes category:

yes	91	64.54%
no	50	35.46%

 

[Supcom]

You mean a capacitive steering wheel like the kind VW, Merc and BMW have been putting on their cars for the last 5 years?

Ah, if only that kind of technology existed…

Capacitive steering wheels must be sensitive enough to work while wearing heavy gloves. Apparently the BMW capacitive sensors are easily fooled with a simple knee against the steering wheel.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I think Tesla needs to get with the federal highway regulators to set standards -- requirements -- for Level 5 autonomous driving. That gives everybody a target to reach and prevents prejudicial interference on the local/state level.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I think Tesla needs to get with the federal highway regulators to set standards -- requirements -- for Level 5 autonomous driving. That gives everybody a target to reach and prevents prejudicial interference on the local/state level.

How about standards for level 2?

 

[MikeHolliday]

Considering how almost every other car maker already has hands free driving it won't be a win for Tesla, it just means Tesla is catching up to the competition.

I truly believe that we would already have hands free if it was not for idiots showing off and doing stunts that they should not have been doimg... I have driven almost every car out there with self-driving and nothing begins to compare to what my FSD Beta can accomplish... My car executes roundabout better that 90% of the individuals that I know...

 

[diplomat33]

I truly believe that we would already have hands free if it was not for idiots showing off and doing stunts that they should not have been doimg... I have driven almost every car out there with self-driving and nothing begins to compare to what my FSD Beta can accomplish... My car executes roundabout better that 90% of the individuals that I know...

I doubt the idiots showing off and doing stunts have anything to do with FSD Beta not being hands-free yet. If FSD Beta were good enough then Tesla could remove the nags now and rely on the camera for driver monitoring. Tesla could do that regardless of what idiots doing stunts might do.

 

[YNoVA]

I truly believe that we would already have hands free if it was not for idiots showing off and doing stunts that they should not have been doimg... I have driven almost every car out there with self-driving and nothing begins to compare to what my FSD Beta can accomplish... My car executes roundabout better that 90% of the individuals that I know...

Well, yes, Tesla's self driving capabilities are far ahead of the competition. But until Tesla allows us to keep our hands of the wheels it won't truly be hands-free driving.

 

[MikeHolliday]

Don't get distracted by these types of questions.

The question needs to be when Tesla will take liability for accidents when FSD/Autopilot is enabled. That's the key question that nobody is asking.

I do not think that any true FSD will ever do so. Individuals will still need insurance even when everyone has FSD cars...

 

[2101Guy]

You do realize all of us have it too, right ... infact some 280k drivers do.

Elon promised 1 million would have it by now…

 

[Tesomega]

Keeping the promises aside, @Tesla should not allow for removing nags, without proper regulatory approval of their system.

 

[Supcom]

Keeping the promises aside, @Tesla should not allow for removing nags, without proper regulatory approval of their system.

Could you provide some details on which regulation affecting L2 ADAS systems Tesla is in need of proper regulatory approval before they can remove the nags?

 

[DanCar]

Keeping the promises aside, @Tesla should not allow for removing nags, without proper regulatory approval of their system.

American history is based on free enterprise and not regulatory approval.

 

[MikeHolliday]

I doubt the idiots showing off and doing stunts have anything to do with FSD Beta not being hands-free yet. If FSD Beta were good enough then Tesla could remove the nags now and rely on the camera for driver monitoring. Tesla could do that regardless of what idiots doing stunts might do.

I live on Ohio and have had FSD Beta since the first week of Novembr 2021... I used it to drive 95% or more of all my driving. It drives roundabouts better than the vast majority of adults that I know. My biggest issue is that it at times misses a turn a must reroute...

 

[hgmichna]

I do not think that any true FSD will ever do so. Individuals will still need insurance even when everyone has FSD cars...

Possible, but if it worked well, insurance would be very cheap.