[POLL] Will Tesla ever offer a key fob for the Model 3?

[Dan Detweiler]

Wrong. I'm under 40 and honestly would prefer to have a fob especially given the failure %. It is way too high for something that people need to depend on a very reliable basis. People keep shouting how it works perfectly for them, and then somehow jump to the conclusion that everyone else is wrong and they're doing it wrong, completely ignoring the possibility that phone key may not be as awesome as you think for some people.

I acknowledge that you have had a bad experience. That does not mean however, that the technology should be thrown out and replaced.

Dan

 

[EfficientWatts]

I acknowledge that you have had a bad experience. That does not mean however, that the technology should be thrown out and replaced.

Dan

I guess I should clarify, I mean that the fob should be offered in addition to/alongside the phone key. I could see the phone key still being useful even if it always had a bad failure rate.

 

[drawfour]

Even if that is the case, to change mid-stream now would not, in my opinion, be in the best interests of the company.

This would require 0 changes to the car. The fobs are not part of the manufacturing line. That line is the bottleneck. The fobs are likely manufactured by a 3rd party, and they'd just have to order more of those, and add some instructions to the delivery specialists to show how to pair 2 fobs to the car. Potentially would have to be a software update to the car, but that's again not a part of the manufacturing process.

I'm hopeful that they will sell fobs as add-ons at some later date. My wife would definitely want the fob, since she has no smart phone. I would have to see how reliable my phone is to decide to buy a fob.

 

[N5329K]

I for one, believe any and all bugs will be out of the system by the time they work through the half million "early adopters" that are already on the waiting list. And...I think you bring up a great point that is often forgotten. We are all early adopters at this point and will be for quite a while yet. Yes, there will be issues to be addressed, things to be fixed, etc. This is being done already. Look at what they have added to autopilot, to scroll wheel functionality, to rear camera clarity, etc. Give them time, it will happen. I just don't see a key fob as being really high on their priority list and in my mind...it shouldn't be. Others will feel differently I'm sure.

Dan

I sure hope you're right. What's happened with Model X is worrying, though. It went from "Look at me look at me look at me now" Falcon Wing Doors, to, "Um, maybe we tried to introduce too much technology at one time" to the bottom of the new Consumer Reports "10 Least Reliable Cars" list.
Robin

 

[tomas]

The problems with phone as key are not in the car. There’s one feature of Tesla app where it only connects to car if you have that car active in your app. I discovered this because I have 2 Teslas, and when I have Model S up, it won’t open the 3. Now that I know, not a problem. The other is with the vagueries of Bluetooth on a phone. On my iPhone, Bluetooth sometimes goes to sleep when phone goes to sleep. So when I see phone is not opening car, I press any button to wake phone, and it immediately works.

Tesla can fix the former, but not the latter.

This is a matter of education. Once you know that, you can always get phone to work.

That doesn’t solve people without phone. No reason Tesla shouldn’t sell a Bluetooth fob. I hope they do, tho I won’t buy it. I would hate to see them go to the complexity of another (non Bluetooth) radio just for fob.

 

[drawfour]

This is a matter of education. Once you know that, you can always get phone to work.

People have claimed that they will actually have the app running and it will say it can't connect. Their phones are not "asleep".

 

[Krugerrand]

Wow I can't even here. The level of mocking here is off the charts. Just because it works well for you doesn't mean the issues aren't very real. This is what's wrong with society today, assuming that just because it's true for me, it must be for everyone and your experience is invalid.

Try telling all the above to your average Joe when their phone decided to crap ito on them. The good old keyfob has a better success rate and user experience in cars than the model 3 and the phone app.

You can’t even but you did anyway.

If the average Joe isn’t smart enough to know that their phone might get damaged or lost or whatever and thus be locked out of their car then it needs to happen at least once so they learn that lesson. Common sense says carry the keycard. It’s really that simple and doesn’t require angst and negativity and societal debate.

 

[slipnslider]

And that’s why a keycard accompanies every 3 sold.

Proving that even tesla has no faith in the phone key.

 

[slipnslider]

Tough crowd here. I think what Garlan is saying (and I know he'll correct me if I get this wrong), is that he has confidence they'll work out any bugs quickly.

So the real question for all of you saying you must have a fob is: If your phone was as reliable as a key fob for opening your 3, would you still want a fob?

Because I think the real issue isn't if you have a fob or not, the issue is that you want reliable entry. A fob would be one solution. Improving the current solution is another.

It's pure fantasy that the phone key will ever be as reliable as a fob. A fob would be built by tesla. A phone key is built by someone else, and was never designed to work as a car key.

 

[drawfour]

Proving that even tesla has no faith in the phone key.

The corollary to that then is that every car manufacturer which uses a key fob has no faith in their fob, because they all have a backup physical key, usually integrated directly into the fob itself. My 2004 Acura MDX has a fob for lock/unlock, but physical key to start the engine. And the key works to unlock too. My wife's Prius has a fob for keyless entry/start/lock. But there is a physical key inside her fob.

 

[slipnslider]

Its new technology for Tesla. Once it works...it will work.

Are you saying you've never had a tech device or application that works, and then something changes or gets updated and it stops working and you have to troubleshoot it and figure out what's wrong?

 

[slipnslider]

I acknowledge that you have had a bad experience. That does not mean however, that the technology should be thrown out and replaced.

Dan

No one is saying throw out the phone key. We're just saying provide a fob for people who want reliability.

 

[mahagala]

I don't know if Tesla would provide fob or not, but I hope they do, I would pay for it if this is an option.

Nothing can replace importance and ease use of a fob.

How many click / tap would you need to open a frunk? trunk and door with a phone? Can you easily use one hand to operate a phone? Can you operate phone without looking at it?

Please don't start with walk close to unlock and leave to lock 'feature', it is not a feature, it's a work around, because S and X's fob is already doing that...

 

[Packetdancer]

People have claimed that they will actually have the app running and it will say it can't connect. Their phones are not "asleep".

I think most of those reports were Android, though.

Android and iOS have wildly differing implementations of Bluetooth, and Android has differing implementations of Bluetooth across manufacturers. For instance, code which worked 100% reliably on a Samsung Galaxy S8+ had a 20% failure rate to connect on a OnePlus device. Code that worked 100% reliably on a Pixel failed _entirely_ on one LG device.

In my experience as a developer on (and user of) both platforms, iOS has a much more solid implementation of Bluetooth Low Energy simply because Apple's made CoreBluetooth a major selling point to developers. It has quirks, but they're more like 'discovery of devices takes longer when the phone is asleep' or 'peripheral advertisement intervals are vastly reduced when the phone is asleep'. I'd bet that if your iPhone is awake and the app is running, the keyfob functionality is pretty solid.

Android exposes a lot more functionality—you can get at the raw advertisement packets, you can add service-specific data when you're being a peripheral, etc.—but there's also a lot more strange (and often undocumented) quirks. For instance, if you scan too often, Android simply temporarily—and silently—throttles the ability to find Bluetooth devices to spare battery life; in my experience you can have an app that's perfectly coded, have it open and active, even be staring at the screen, and some other app entirely has caused your Android Bluetooth stack to temporarily die.

I suspect Tesla's falling afoul of these various quirks, especially on Android.

Yes, there _are_ some semi-reliable ways to use a phone like a keyfob, particularly on iOS, but it's not a simple problem to solve, and it's a problem you tend to have to revisit and re-solve each time a new OS comes out. So even if they get it 100% reliable on Android Oreo, when Android P comes out, it could very well break.

I like the idea of phone as keyfob, honestly, but I think right now it's using the technology in a manner that isn't really "per manufacturer spec", inasmuch as Apple and Google do not particularly take pains to keep from breaking such implementations across OS revisions (nor do Android vendors take particular pains to make such functionality work reliably in their own Bluetooth stacks). It's just not one of the primary use cases, and so it's not as heavily tested when code is changed or ported.

Given that, a dedicated keyfob probably isn't a bad way to hedge their bets.

 

[drawfour]

I think most of those reports were Android, though.

Yes, but the person I was replying to was claiming that it's just a matter of waking your phone. He has an iPhone, and so that works for him, so he thinks that will just work for everyone. I was pointing out that it does not work for everyone.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Phone key doesn’t work:
A. If you have > 1 Tesla and app is set to another car
B. If phone is not awake. Just press any button.

Tesla needs better instruction at delivery, not different key.

Tesla has been loading and synching the app at the time of delivery.

 

[achilles992000]

Model 3 already has advanced buttcheek recognition.

from a distance, you just have to shake your butt at the camera and the door will open. It only works if there are a lot of people nearby watching.

Try it out.

 

[Garlan Garner]

No one is saying throw out the phone key. We're just saying provide a fob for people who want reliability.

I would have thought that this thread and/or others in this forum would be blasting this place with negative comments about what is actually happening. Tesla is delivering about 3K per week.....and this thread is only 4 pages long.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Are you saying you've never had a tech device or application that works, and then something changes or gets updated and it stops working and you have to troubleshoot it and figure out what's wrong?

Of course I have, but like my Model 3....I usually have an alternate opportunity such as the credit card key that comes with Model 3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

All these whining phonefans act like providing a fob would take away their precious phone key toy.
It wouldn't. You'd still be free to spend your free time troubleshooting your phone key if you choose. And people who simply want something totally reliable would have that too.

How many options should Tesla provide for entry into the car?

1. Phone
2. Credit Card sized backup
3. Key fob.

What will each option cost Tesla to provide to their customers?