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Poor initial solar panel design (1/2 of requested size). Recommended next steps?

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Hi all,
After signing up 6+ weeks ago and requesting the 8.5kW panels with 2PW, the initial design just came through with 4.25kW of panels. I've had several local quotes (at 1.5-2x the price) including one very detailed w/eng plans supporting up to 7kW, and they missed one obvious place to put 3+ panels, so I'm pretty sure it's possible to go larger than the 4.25kW design.

Am curious what people recommend, especially anyone who has gone through the (re-)design process before. The site visit is scheduled for a few weeks from now.

* Should I wait until then and ask the staff in-person?
* Should I request a change online now?
* Should I drop Tesla and get a more competitive local quote? Am in the bay area/Silicon valley if any suggestions.
* Any other creative ideas?

Thanks!

PS. Attached a marked-up design showing the two places where more panels can go (definitely A, maybe B). The other companies also had many more panels in the primary South & North facing sections...
 

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My only suggestion/concern with Tesla installs in CA is NEM3.0 is coming. We don't know how bad it will be, but if your PTO is after May 22nd (I think?), your install may not pencil out and you maybe stuck with all the negative fees (it might not be as bad as suggested by the IOUs though).

Installing solar now is pretty risky without knowing what the terms will be in 5 months, especially since these things can take extremely long with supply issues (I had missing components for my storage side), installers are massively booked and there is a mad dash/rush to get it done before 3.0. Even killing off 1:1 net metering destroyed the markets in HI and NV so add bad export credits, $8/kW, your ROI probably went from 5 years to 15.

I didn't go with Tesla solar primarily because of my concerns with PTO and I started last July. In my 6 weeks time, I already had all permits and panels on my roof. My PTO was like 1 week (was shocked it was that fast hearing horror stories here. I'm in SD though).

Not trying to talk you out of Tesla solar since everything else is probably more expensive, but if you don't get NEM2.0 terms, you may not bother with your install at all and the savings from Tesla solar just doesn't matter at that point. I suppose bottom line is don't say no one warned you about slow PTO times with any install and especially Tesla solar.
 
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I am in California where the proposed Successor Tariff may definitely affect the economics. I got a very competitive proposal from Tesla for just solar when they were transitioning to only doing solar with Powerwalls. That left me with some uncertainty about cancelation or delays. My install also involved a main service panel upgrade which added the possibility of additional delays dealing with PG&E on the service panel upgrade. I was fortunate to have access to some resources so I did a self install. I got the PTO in September so if the Sucessor Tariff is passed I have 15 years of NEM 2.O.
 
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Thanks sunwarriers & Ampster for the replies! (and great usernames btw).

Our city has a city-owned utility that usually delays and grandfathers rather generously, so I'm less concerned about the NEM timing.

My main questions are:
  1. Has anyone successfully had Tesla re-design to increase the capacity?
  2. Should I make that request online now, or wait for the site visit and ask in-person?
 
There is this thread where additional panels were added to the design after being initially told no:

Solar Panels Design

Looking at the layout, I don't think the region you labelled A will fit any panels. Region B might fit the two panels but it is very tight and I don't know if there are any setback requirement that would prevent them from being installed there. Other vendors might have done a better job of filling out the roof as they are probably using small panels.
 
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I agree with yblaser's assessment. The racking is going to be really rough for that staggered arrangement and I can't imagine an installer wanting to push the envelope in Palo Alto.

@fiatlux, you may not realize this, but the solar-inspector for PA is notorious as one of the absolute worst difficult to work with. Like she prides herself at finding things and making installers jump through hoops to 100% comply with Code. You'll be hard-pressed to locate non-Tesla installers that are willing to take new business in PA.

 
Thanks sunwarriers & Ampster for the replies! (and great usernames btw).

Our city has a city-owned utility that usually delays and grandfathers rather generously, so I'm less concerned about the NEM timing.

My main questions are:
  1. Has anyone successfully had Tesla re-design to increase the capacity?
  2. Should I make that request online now, or wait for the site visit and ask in-person?

I saw that @fiatlux had palo alto as the listed area, and then saw the above statement, then remembered what we have read about Palo Alto permitting, and thought to myself "I must be mis remembering what city the "notorious" inspector works for, because easy grandfathering and generous doesnt describe what we heard about that particular city permitting process.
@fiatlux, you may not realize this, but the solar-inspector for PA is notorious as one of the absolute worst difficult to work with. Like she prides herself at finding things and making installers jump through hoops to 100% comply with Code. You'll be hard-pressed to locate non-Tesla installers that are willing to take new business in PA.

 
Interesting article and interesting points that they actually sell their own power making them like an IOU to begin with to not want to approve anything (though they deny that).

It sounds like from the Board member, this has been a problem for nearly 2 decades so hard to change. Also interesting they named that inspector.

To OP on your main questions, I think no one really knows. People have had panels increased by Tesla, that's for certian...but every home is unique so if Tesla says no, you may have a tough road to change their minds. They also switched recently to a larger panel I think so maybe you can see if they have the smaller panel as an option (if that's the issue in your case)?

I'd asked ASAP online if I was in your shoes, especially if 4.25kW isn't going to work for your install/plan. Better get the ball rolling now rather than a few weeks from now and waste those weeks and start from scratch.
 
Send them your proposed design and see whether they will accommodate it or explain why it won’t work. Sometimes there are minimum setbacks if you install on adjacent roofs. In my case, I’ve asked for a site survey and they increased the size but it added a few months to the project.
 
Interesting article and interesting points that they actually sell their own power making them like an IOU to begin with to not want to approve anything (though they deny that).

It sounds like from the Board member, this has been a problem for nearly 2 decades so hard to change. Also interesting they named that inspector.

To OP on your main questions, I think no one really knows. People have had panels increased by Tesla, that's for certian...but every home is unique so if Tesla says no, you may have a tough road to change their minds. They also switched recently to a larger panel I think so maybe you can see if they have the smaller panel as an option (if that's the issue in your case)?

I'd asked ASAP online if I was in your shoes, especially if 4.25kW isn't going to work for your install/plan. Better get the ball rolling now rather than a few weeks from now and waste those weeks and start from scratch.


Lol yeah I heard one time Rhonda made an installer climb up with a digital torque wrench and prove like of the racking bolts was to spec. So the guy had to climb up and down up and down showing each torque result.

I guess the good news is if a Tesla solar roof went up in PA, there would be zero chance the gutters would shock anybody... at least until Tesla pushes a troublesome firmware update.
 
I may have missed where north was on your diagram, but assuming that due north is straight up, you may have significant shading on your A & B locations. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't install there, just that they may miss morning sun due to marine layer fog, and afternoon due to shading. There might be an opportunity to install west of the three panels that might maximize delivered power, though the vent may prove challenging. Does anyone know if Palo Alto permit reduced height vents under solar?

All the best,

BG
 
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I may have missed where north was on your diagram, but assuming that due north is straight up, you may have significant shading on your A & B locations. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't install there, just that they may miss morning sun due to marine layer fog, and afternoon due to shading. There might be an opportunity to install west of the three panels that might maximize delivered power, though the vent may prove challenging. Does anyone know if Palo Alto permit reduced height vents under solar?

All the best,

BG
CPA does not allow cutting or covering rooftop DWV.
 
There might be an opportunity to install west of the three panels that might maximize delivered power, though the vent may prove challenging. Does anyone know if Palo Alto permit reduced height vents under solar?
It is possible to move a vent to the opposite roof plane, but you'd have to employ another trade to do that before Tesla's installation.
 
Hi all,
After signing up 6+ weeks ago and requesting the 8.5kW panels with 2PW, the initial design just came through with 4.25kW of panels. I've had several local quotes (at 1.5-2x the price) including one very detailed w/eng plans supporting up to 7kW, and they missed one obvious place to put 3+ panels, so I'm pretty sure it's possible to go larger than the 4.25kW design.

Am curious what people recommend, especially anyone who has gone through the (re-)design process before. The site visit is scheduled for a few weeks from now.

* Should I wait until then and ask the staff in-person?
* Should I request a change online now?
* Should I drop Tesla and get a more competitive local quote? Am in the bay area/Silicon valley if any suggestions.
* Any other creative ideas?

Thanks!

PS. Attached a marked-up design showing the two places where more panels can go (definitely A, maybe B). The other companies also had many more panels in the primary South & North facing sections...
I went thru multiple system design changes with them. Each iteration takes 2-3 weeks, this is after daily status call and kept repeating the same thing to whoever was on the call.

Call and ask for design changes, send them layout you want using paint or any other tools. You don't want to wait till onsite inspection. My onsite inspector took a lot of photos and some measurements. That's about it. Hopefully you can have new layout before the inspection happens, so you can have him confirm the panels will fit on your roof.
 
Sounds like it takes a LONG time to review design changes. Submitted my order in last Friday before the price changes and hope it goes well.

Tesla sent out an email earlier today with the following article attached. In terms of grandfathering in, I think as long as your ACCEPT the final site design, you should be grandfathered into the NEM2.0 rather than having to wait until PTO.


Notes on grandfathering under NEM 2.0. Remember this is not the final decision, but it should be a wake up call to try and 1) make sure it’s not the final decision, and 2) prep all of your customers in case that it is.

  • To secure NEM 2.0 grandfathering, customers must have a signed installation, lease, or PPA project contract by the sunset date (May 27 as currently scheduled).
  • This differs from the precedent during the transition to NEM 2.0, which only required that Interconnection Applications be submitted to the utility prior to the sunset date to preserve NEM 1.0 grandfathering.
  • If the interconnection application was submitted prior to the final decision, the customer would be eligible for 20 years of grandfathering. If the application is submitted between the final decision and the sunset date, only 15 years of grandfathering would apply.
  • If the project design is not fully developed at the time when the interconnection application is submitted, Sage recommends claiming a larger system size than you think is necessary on the application. You can reduce the system size later without having to resubmit the application, but you can’t increase it.
 
Lol yeah I heard one time Rhonda made an installer climb up with a digital torque wrench and prove like of the racking bolts was to spec. So the guy had to climb up and down up and down showing each torque result.

I guess the good news is if a Tesla solar roof went up in PA, there would be zero chance the gutters would shock anybody... at least until Tesla pushes a troublesome firmware update.
I am pretty sure there are solarroofs installed in PA. I believe one or two in PA were part of the first 100 solarroof install group. Of course, those came with gutter replacement.