Poor Model Y Tesla Vison Experience

[Lordswine]

Hello Everyone and thank you for all of your responses ahead of time.

I recently bought a 2023 Model Y (owned it only two weeks at the time of this post and never owned a Tesla before) with "Tesla Vision" and I am very disappointed in the Autopilot (not even talking about FSD). For example today the car today was so close to rear-ending the car in front of me that my new seats have pucker marks! it lunges and breaks and stops before signs and lights. It is stressful to even drive the car with Autopilot. I bought the car to remove some of the stress of driving and now I feel cheated. I am messing around with FSD but I expect it to be buggy because it is in Beata and I knew that going in. But for the car to just drive this crappy with Autopilot is very disappointing, to say the least.

My point here is not to rant but to ask around if anyone else suffering from this Tesla Vison crappiness. I honestly would bring the car back and wait for it to work better at a later date if I could. Is there any hope or news or was Tesla Vison one BIG FAT mistake from Tesla?

Seriously Disappointed Tesla customer.

 

[enemji]

Looks like maybe you purchased the Full Disappointment Package. Many of us did. It is very stressfull. Good for the environment, bad for your health. Keep your expectations low.

Great Expectations

leads to

Greater Disappointments

 

[alaminsumon]

Thanks I appreciate it, I do have FSD it gives me the option to allow the car to stop at lights and signs.When not imputing a route and activating autopilot with FSD installed it stays in the lane and stops at all signals.

Are you sure FSD beta is activated in your vehicle, I have picked up my car more than 3 weeks ago and requested the beta (drove 300 miles in NOA and have safety score of 98) and still the beta update is not applied to my car yet, could you please mention your software version here I doubt you are mixing up the FSD beta viewing otpion with actual FSD beta drive option which is only available after the beta package is installed in your car by OTA (after you have driven certain miles in autopilot and having safety score more than 98 or so)

 

[BitJam]

Are you sure FSD beta is activated in your vehicle, I have picked up my car more than 3 weeks ago and requested the beta (drove 300 miles in NOA and have safety score of 98) and still the beta update is not applied to my car yet, could you please mention your software version here I doubt you are mixing up the FSD beta viewing otpion with actual FSD beta drive option which is only available after the beta package is installed in your car by OTA (after you have driven certain miles in autopilot and having safety score more than 98 or so)

Beta has available to anyone who pays for it and requests it. Unfortunately, you can no longer get it now due to the NHTSA recall:

 

[PVia]

Autopilot is the basic highway keep in lane, don't run into the car in front. Every Tesla has it.
Basic FSD adds highway lane change, take highway junction exits, overtaking etc You pay money for that.

EAP does this NOT "Basic FSD"

 

[Twiglett]

EAP does this NOT "Basic FSD"

You are taking it out of the context of the OP, who has FSD.
But even so, you are incorrect - FSD (using your all caps) INCLUDES ALL EAP FEATURES. EAP is just a subset of FSD features that is has been sold by Tesla on and off over the years.
I was using "basic" to help differentiate between that and getting the beta. Even so, lane change is definitely part of FSD.
It would be more accurate to say that EAP includes lane change etc.

 

[PVia]

It would be more accurate to say that EAP includes lane change etc.

Exactly what I meant. There's too much misnaming of these features here on TMC and it's confusing to new owners and prospective buyers.

 

[DrChaos]

Hello Everyone and thank you for all of your responses ahead of time.

I recently bought a 2023 Model Y (owned it only two weeks at the time of this post and never owned a Tesla before) with "Tesla Vision" and I am very disappointed in the Autopilot (not even talking about FSD). For example today the car today was so close to rear-ending the car in front of me that my new seats have pucker marks! it lunges and breaks and stops before signs and lights. It is stressful to even drive the car with Autopilot.

Regular non-FSD autopilot (with blue lane lines) only works reasonably well on divided highways without lights or stop signs, and without intersections. It saves stress in those cases. It adds stress without it. It's just not designed to work successfully outside that area; the fact that it even tries is luck.

 

[enemji]

I recently bought a 2023 Model Y (owned it only two weeks at the time of this post and never owned a Tesla before) with "Tesla Vision" and I am very disappointed in the Autopilot (not even talking about FSD). For example today the car today was so close to rear-ending the car in front of me that my new seats have pucker marks! it lunges and breaks and stops before signs and lights.

I have a 2022 M3LR and 98% of the time it does not behave like that on city streets.
Highway TACC amd Lane keeping is gorgeous to say the least.

 

[BitJam]

Regular non-FSD autopilot (with blue lane lines) only works reasonably well on divided highways without lights or stop signs, and without intersections. It saves stress in those cases. It adds stress without it. It's just not designed to work successfully outside that area; the fact that it even tries is luck.

I disagree. I use AP for about 80% of my driving and very little of that is on divided highways. It's great for stop and go traffic in front of a traffic light. It saves me a lot of stress when I use it. Granted, I have to pay attention and I often use the right thumbwheel to adjust the speed. And I have to disengage when I am going to make a turn or if I'm the first one at a light. Still, my drives are much less stressful when I use it compared to when I don't. It took me a while to figure out how to mesh well with AP. Some tips here at TMC helped a lot.

Of courses, YMMVG and success with AP may depend on where you live. For me, I would hate to get a car without Autopilot or something better. Oddly, I would say it performs worse on divided highways because I can't increase the follow distance above 7 and a follow distance of 7 is considered tailgating where I live (at least by me). So I muck about a lot to avoid being behind someone going slower than I am. I'm fine with the auto-wipers and auto-highbeams even though they're not perfect but the limited range of follow distances seems nuts.

 

[PVia]

I'd like an increased following distance as well, plus a quicker reaction to stopped or slowed highway traffic, but I've learned how to manage.
Here in So California, drivers follow 1 or 2 car lengths behind at 65-75 mph. It's ridiculous...and although EAP is excellent, it's the main reason I disengage.

 

[COS Blue]

Autopilot, specifically TACC, increases the stress of driving for me on a somewhat regular basis. It has hit the brakes hard for no reason (phantom braking) on rural 2-lane highways. It has also done it on the Interstate. Curvy ones, straight ones. There is no situation where I fully trust it.

Sometimes things improve with software updates. Sometimes things get significantly worse (like when Tesla Vision was activated) . "Learning" how it works is therefore of limited value because it might not work tomorrow the way it does today. Some will not be bothered with hard braking every week or so. Others are fortunate enough to never experience it. For me, I've lost trust in TACC because I never know when it's going to strike at me with phantom braking. It has embarrassed me many times. It has even lost usefulness since I purchased it because it no longer functions if the sun is in its eyes, and they increased the minimum follow distance, making it too frustrating to use in heavy traffic (even on the Interstate) .

I still use it because it's the only way I can use cruise control, which is basic functionality I've been using since the 1980s. Some will say you aren't supposed to use TACC except for on limited access highways, which would mean my $70k car has less usable driver assistance than my 1989 Nissan had.

 

[enemji]

Autopilot, specifically TACC, increases the stress of driving for me on a somewhat regular basis. It has hit the brakes hard for no reason (phantom braking) on rural 2-lane highways. It has also done it on the Interstate. Curvy ones, straight ones. There is no situation where I fully trust it.

Sometimes things improve with software updates. Sometimes things get significantly worse (like when Tesla Vision was activated) . "Learning" how it works is therefore of limited value because it might not work tomorrow the way it does today. Some will not be bothered with hard braking every week or so. Others are fortunate enough to never experience it. For me, I've lost trust in TACC because I never know when it's going to strike at me with phantom braking. It has embarrassed me many times. It has even lost usefulness since I purchased it because it no longer functions if the sun is in its eyes, and they increased the minimum follow distance, making it too frustrating to use in heavy traffic (even on the Interstate) .

I still use it because it's the only way I can use cruise control, which is basic functionality I've been using since the 1980s. Some will say you aren't supposed to use TACC except for on limited access highways, which would mean my $70k car has less usable driver assistance than my 1989 Nissan had.

Are you in a high density or a bleaky outdoor low density area?

 

[COS Blue]

Are you in a high density or a bleaky outdoor low density area?

Not sure if that's a serious question or not. I live in Colorado Springs. Majority of PB events have been outside of town. I 25, US 24 west of town, I 70 west of Denver. TACC slowing down below speed limit due to low sun in town.

 

[enemji]

Not sure if that's a serious question or not. I live in Colorado Springs. Majority of PB events have been outside of town. I 25, US 24 west of town, I 70 west of Denver. TACC slowing down below speed limit due to low sun in town.

Totally serious question.

It has been my experience, and with what little experience I have in automation over the last 30 years, I am suspecting that the new generation of Autonomous driving requires good traffic density to provide itself references as it moves along. In other words, when there is no traffic, it is literally like how a human gets zoned out on an empty road. These systems are losing reference and freaks out, not knowing if there really is nothing out there or it is a systematic issue/frozen frames etc. This results in the default safety action - brake/slow down, and give up control back to the human.

Even the Mercedes Drive Pilot system is restricted to speeds less than 40mph and in high traffic density roads.

 

[COS Blue]

I am suspecting that the new generation of Autonomous driving requires good traffic density to provide itself references as it moves along.

Yes, this matches my experience. PB mostly (perhaps always) happens when there is no one else near me, or at least not in front of me. I believe your assessment is spot on.

 

[BitJam]

I am suspecting that the new generation of Autonomous driving requires good traffic density to provide itself references as it moves along. In other words, when there is no traffic, it is literally like how a human gets zoned out on an empty road.

This is an interesting idea but it's not been my experience. I live in rural New Mexico and use AP for about 80% of my driving. There is traffic in the "downtown" area but a lot of my driving is with few other cars on the road.

Having no other cars on the road is not a problem. Having no lane lines is more of a problem but this seems to be improving. It was able to pick out a lane on a two lane road that had recently been resurfaced and had no paint on it. I don't know how it did this. There's about a mile of two lane road I take on my way home. A year ago AP wouldn't even engage on it because there wasn't much paint left. After they painted it AP was happy. But I think it will continue to work even as this paint wears off. We'll see.

There are a couple of specific places where following a car helps. This is where the lanes shift from one side of an intersection to the other by about half a lane width with no markings. If I'm not following someone then the car will guess wrong and try to shift lanes in the middle of the intersection. But if I'm following someone, it will do the right thing.

Perhaps our vastly different experiences with AP have to do with expectations and driver participation. If you expect the car to handle everything for you then you will be disappointed. But if you're willing to pay attention and participate then you can get the most out of AP. For example, if my car brakes or slows when I don't want it to then I put my foot on the accelerator to keep it going. It took a while to learn how to do all of this smoothly but eventually it became mostly second nature.

 

[jeewee3000]

I'd like an increased following distance as well, plus a quicker reaction to stopped or slowed highway traffic, but I've learned how to manage.
Here in So California, drivers follow 1 or 2 car lengths behind at 65-75 mph. It's ridiculous...and although EAP is excellent, it's the main reason I disengage.

I agree. If there is a traffic jam up ahead on a highway where I'm legally allowed to drive 75 mph NoA will keep racing at the set speed (75mph) towards stopped traffic before suddenly "seeing" the cars when I'm quite close and then it brakes heavily to a stop. Terrifying really. That's why I anticipate by reducing the set speed in increments of 5 upon approaching stopped/slow traffic.

 

[COS Blue]

Perhaps our vastly different experiences with AP have to do with expectations and driver participation. If you expect the car to handle everything for you then you will be disappointed. But if you're willing to pay attention and participate then you can get the most out of AP. For example, if my car brakes or slows when I don't want it to then I put my foot on the accelerator to keep it going.

My expectations are simply that the car doesn't stab the breaks at unexpected times. Yes, when it happens, i apply the throttle and take over. Nothing else I can do. By then my passengers (and myself) have already been freaked out and annoyed. I suspect we are just having different levels of severity. Many of mine have been quite jarring to the point where I'm cringing waiting for it to happen again.

 

[Dewg]

I agree. If there is a traffic jam up ahead on a highway where I'm legally allowed to drive 75 mph NoA will keep racing at the set speed (75mph) towards stopped traffic before suddenly "seeing" the cars when I'm quite close and then it brakes heavily to a stop. Terrifying really. That's why I anticipate by reducing the set speed in increments of 5 upon approaching stopped/slow traffic.

The forward camera has a range of 820 feet. It sees the stopped cars at that range and takes action. 75mph is 110 feet per second. That means it has to stop in about 7 seconds.

Do people think it's the software or a bug causing this behavior? It's performing exactly how it's designed to. It's simple math.

 

[enemji]

This is an interesting idea but it's not been my experience. I live in rural New Mexico and use AP for about 80% of my driving. There is traffic in the "downtown" area but a lot of my driving is with few other cars on the road.

Having no other cars on the road is not a problem. Having no lane lines is more of a problem but this seems to be improving. It was able to pick out a lane on a two lane road that had recently been resurfaced and had no paint on it. I don't know how it did this. There's about a mile of two lane road I take on my way home. A year ago AP wouldn't even engage on it because there wasn't much paint left. After they painted it AP was happy. But I think it will continue to work even as this paint wears off. We'll see.

There are a couple of specific places where following a car helps. This is where the lanes shift from one side of an intersection to the other by about half a lane width with no markings. If I'm not following someone then the car will guess wrong and try to shift lanes in the middle of the intersection. But if I'm following someone, it will do the right thing.

Perhaps our vastly different experiences with AP have to do with expectations and driver participation. If you expect the car to handle everything for you then you will be disappointed. But if you're willing to pay attention and participate then you can get the most out of AP. For example, if my car brakes or slows when I don't want it to then I put my foot on the accelerator to keep it going. It took a while to learn how to do all of this smoothly but eventually it became mostly second nature.

Good observations and I too am learning as I get to using more of the TACC an AP. The one region where TACC/AP definitely loses references is when there are huge ups and downs and you are going up the mound. The vision cannot see beyond the top of the hill/mound and it starts slowing down/braking.