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Porsche 911 hybrid put on hold

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#2
I'd guess they're looking in to the future and see no future nor benefit to hybrid and are leaning towards pure BEV. It'll be interesting to see how long the ICE version of the 911 lasts once a better performing and very likely much better handling BEV is available. A BEV 911 will likely be a bit range limited but that shouldn't be a problem for most 911 owners.
 
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#3
ElectricTundra said:
A BEV 911 will likely be a bit range limited but that shouldn't be a problem for most 911 owners.
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IF Porsche ever makes an EV -- I will believe it when it goes into production -- I suspect Porsche will figure out ways to hobble it so that it is not superior to the 911 in every department: handling, acceleration, top speed, whatever. Yes any EV Porsche eventually makes will not be able to go as many miles on a charge as a 911 ICE can go on a tank of gas, that is simply a fact because of the physics of batteries now and for at least a decade to come, I think. But in every other measure besides range a Porsche EV sports car should be clearly superior to any 911 version. Porsche will not want to allow that, not yet.
 
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#6
ElectricTundra said:
Porsche will not have a choice. They can obsolete themselves or let others do it to them. Introducing a Porsche BEV that has less performance and handling than a 4 door family sedan hatchback will cause significant image problems for them.
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Porsche already has major image problems and it doesn't seem to bother them very much: the Model S P100DL is the quickest (current) production car in the world and it seats 5 adults and weighs nearly 5,000 lbs. Yet Porsche can't beat it or even match it with much lighter 2-seat and 2+2 sports cars that cost more. And Porsche has a long racing history, while Tesla has no racing history at all. That is simply embarrassing for Porsche (Full disclosure: I have owned 5 Porsches in my life. I no longer own any)
 
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#9
ecarfan said:
Porsche already has major image problems and it doesn't seem to bother them very much: the Model S P100DL is the quickest (current) production car in the world and it seats 5 adults and weighs nearly 5,000 lbs. Yet Porsche can't beat it or even match it with much lighter 2-seat and 2+2 sports cars that cost more. And Porsche has a long racing history, while Tesla has no racing history at all. That is simply embarrassing for Porsche (Full disclosure: I have owned 5 Porsches in my life. I no longer own any)
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Well, I don't think that most people concerned about performance who buy Porsches are really focused on drag racing.
 
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#10
I read a lot about a Porsche hybrid - 918 - to be record setting. Oh, they already made 918 starting price of only $845,000 - stopped production June 2015. How many did they make?
... 918 will do 0-62 in 2.6 seconds ... 0-124 comes in 7.2 seconds and 0-186 in 19.9. For comparison, McLaren's new P1 is slightly slower to 62 at 2.8 seconds, [full electric] the 918 will accelerate to 62 in 6.1 seconds ...around the Nordschleifein 6:57.
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So 4 years later in 2019 the [992] 911 - about $140,000
(could be collectors last ICE Porsche? or last 911?)

Why not a Model P3D ? and save tens of thousands?
(use extra cash to save/store your current 911 classic)

Interesting times ... how fast will electrification happen?
Who will win the hybrid market? Already BEV [Battery Electric Vehicle] are out selling PHEV [Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle] right?
 
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#11
Why didn't Porsche offer hybrid after June 2015 ?? When will McLaren offer 4 wheel drive?
Which company will offer BEV to compete against Tesla Roadster first?

and add Ferrari

McLaren won - lightest car - perhaps this is why Porsche figured hybrid not worth the complexity.
 
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#12
911 sets benchmarks for the sports car industry, and it's not the straight line acceleration that matters. It's the Ring time. The latest GT2 RS set a record of 6 min 47 seconds on the Ring, so the next 911 will have to be beat that. As impressive as the new Tesla Roadster is going to be, I highly doubt it'll come close to touching this time set by the 911 GT2 RS.

And I can see why Porsche doesn't think battery is ready for 911 yet. As good as today's batteries are, they are not going to work in track conditions with consistent performance and still achieve relatively low curb weight. Once the battery can keep up with the Ring runs, then I am sure Porsche will be putting battery into the 911.
 
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#13
An EV or even a hybrid will not be considered a 911 by most hard core 911 enthusiasts. Porsche/VW had a lot of opportunities to make better sports cars at the price level by just give mid-engine Cayman or R8 power needed but they won't even attempt to. They do not want to do anything that could threat the iconic 911. 911 itself may not be that important to Porsche's business but without the halo effect it will not be able to sell so many money making Cayenne or Macan.

Porsche has more reason to resist the electrification of 911 than other brands but somewhere down the road I believe they just have to do it. If you don't think so just look at what is happening to Harley Davidson when its demography is gradually dying off, both figuratively and literally. I don't hear many millenniums say my dream car is a 911 like we all did when we were young. Young techie types nowadays all say Tesla is their dream car. It's very hard to resist where the market is going.
 
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#14
CarlK said:
An EV or even a hybrid will not be considered a 911 by most hard core 911 enthusiasts. Porsche/VW had a lot of opportunities to make better sports cars at the price level by just give mid-engine Cayman or R8 power needed but they won't even attempt to. They do not want to do anything that could threat the iconic 911. 911 itself may not be that important to Porsche's business but without the halo effect it will not be able to sell so many money making Cayenne or Macan.

Porsche has more reason to resist the electrification of 911 than other brands but somewhere down the road I believe they just have to do it. If you don't think so just look at what is happening to Harley Davidson when its demography is gradually dying off, both figuratively and literally. I don't hear many millenniums say my dream car is a 911 like we all did when we were young. Young techie types nowadays all say Tesla is their dream car. It's very hard to resist where the market is going.
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Porsche will just be for old geezer posers. When they die off, it's over.
 
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#15
CarlK said:
An EV or even a hybrid will not be considered a 911 by most hard core 911 enthusiasts. Porsche/VW had a lot of opportunities to make better sports cars at the price level by just give mid-engine Cayman or R8 power needed but they won't even attempt to. They do not want to do anything that could threat the iconic 911. 911 itself may not be that important to Porsche's business but without the halo effect it will not be able to sell so many money making Cayenne or Macan.

Porsche has more reason to resist the electrification of 911 than other brands but somewhere down the road I believe they just have to do it. If you don't think so just look at what is happening to Harley Davidson when its demography is gradually dying off, both figuratively and literally. I don't hear many millenniums say my dream car is a 911 like we all did when we were young. Young techie types nowadays all say Tesla is their dream car. It's very hard to resist where the market is going.
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911 is still considered by many in the sports car world as the pinnacle of sports car. However, that crowd is definitely getting smaller. But just like you alluded to, Porsche no longer needs to rely on 911 to survive. It has the Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera to do that, and I bet Taycan wll contribute to that as well. 911 is also not about pure speed, but it is about the overall package. The feel of speed and the feel of being a part of the car. I am sure once they figure out how to do that with electricfication, they will do it. Heck, they are the first of the sports car company to jump on the plug-in hybrid platform with the 918. And one of the first luxury brands to jump on hybrid with the Cayenne hybrid. They should be one of the last to be criticized just because they are not ready to put batteries into the 911.
 
#17
PhantomX said:
911 is still considered by many in the sports car world as the pinnacle of sports car. However, that crowd is definitely getting smaller. But just like you alluded to, Porsche no longer needs to rely on 911 to survive. It has the Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera to do that, and I bet Taycan wll contribute to that as well. 911 is also not about pure speed, but it is about the overall package. The feel of speed and the feel of being a part of the car. I am sure once they figure out how to do that with electricfication, they will do it. Heck, they are the first of the sports car company to jump on the plug-in hybrid platform with the 918. And one of the first luxury brands to jump on hybrid with the Cayenne hybrid. They should be one of the last to be criticized just because they are not ready to put batteries into the 911.
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The reason that Porsche could sell a lot of cash cows Cayenne and Macan at a high premium over similar cars, even its siblings Q7 and Q5, is the brand image obtained by the 911. That's the only thing of importance to Porsche. Remember not too long ago when Porsche was a 911 company, and did not have profit from mass market cars to subsidise the sports car development, it had been struggling all the time and even on the brink of bankrupcy at certain points.

Porsche is no longer a 911 company although that's still how the company wants it to be perceived. To ask it to disturbe that is like to ask Steph Curry to stop shooting from outside the arc. That's what they do best. It does make some sense if they want to delay distrubing that for as long as they could but what makes sense may not be the right thing to do. Even an iconic ICE sports car like 911 (actually second to Ferrari in that sense) will eventually fade away. That could happen sooner than you think because of the new technology. As I mentioned who would even have imagined that Hardly Davidson would go electric? When you're forced to do something it is usually too little and too late. I'm not delaring Porsche's demise. They have a lot of smart people there. Although companies like Kodak or Blackberry used to have a lot of smart people there too.

Just a disclosure to show that I'm not a sour grape or Porsche hater. I have owned a Cayman S until two and half years ago when I traded it for my second Tesla. If Porsche could make a better electric car I have no reason not to consider it. I just don't think they could at this point.
 
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