FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
As a long time PCA driver and instructor I must comment that you don't know what you are talking about... GLWT
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Porsche Mission E
- Thread starter MartinAustin
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As a long time PCA driver and instructor I must comment that you don't know what you are talking about... GLWT
As a long time PCA driver and instructor I must comment that you don't know what you are talking about... GLWT
I disagree with you. Just the body roll in a Tesla is enough to stop driving it.
How much G force can a Tesla pull, vs a Porsche?
And why does Porsche always has a better lap time than a tesla?
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What vehicles are you guys talking about here? Nobody should be comparing handling characteristics of the Model S to a 911. The only Tesla that truly belongs on a track is the Tesla P3D. If it’s powertrain you’re talking about, the Tesla responsiveness will smash an ICE Porsche hands down every time unless you’re racing on an aircraft runway at top speed. Note: I’m not talking about endurance track days where the battery size creates fueling challenges.
CarlK
Active Member
Even my Model S P85+ is no slouch when it comes to handling. At that time I also owned a Cayman S, which although somewhat underpowered it does handled better than most 911 except perhaps those hard riding GT's. The heavy Tesla with pretty weak tires (I do have 21" low profile summers but they are still not enough) certainly can not do as well when reaching the limit but otherwise the steering is almost as sharp and road feel as good. What it lacks there it made up with the super responsive and linear torque. In the end I got rid of the 6speed Porsche because it's just not as much fun to drive. That's even when I take it for the weekend drive on curve mountain hiways. No kidding! It's way more satisfying than the Porsche when you take it out of the steep curve.
I do agree Model 3 is a much better one for comparison though. Many have done just that. Dan Neil, the Pulitzer price winning WSJ auto writter, said the Model 3 performance will definitely beat your average Porsche on your average road course. Motor Trend also has tested a M3P track mode and got a very close track time as Cayman GT4's Not too bad for a ~4000lb 4 door sedan.
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FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
CarlK
Active Member
The reason is pretty simple. No full sized adult will be sitting in the concept car. That's problem with the Panamera too. It's not easy to make a minimally comfortable sedan to have the Porsche (911) look. Which is a must since it's the strongest selling point of the car. In the end you're getting a cross between a horse and a camel after making all those compromises. Looking back the Model S is really a smart design. That it started with a clean sheet of paper helped too.
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Cayman GT4 is a manual car. It will have lower lap times than an automatic. GT4s are for people who like manuals and a more raw experience.
And yes it is because of Handling that I bought the Cayman / Boxster rather than the 911.
If history is any guide, Porsche likely won't allow it to outperform a high-end 911.
History of what? I'd expect the Carrera GT and 918 outperformed the top end 911 at the time.
CarlK
Active Member
That's the reason I bought my 6 speed Cayman S and all my previous sports cars too. On the other hand I once thought handling is everything but that's no longer the case since I got my first Tesla. I did not know a car could be this responsive but be able to regulate speed at will is as important as, if not more than, be able to turn the car at will for driving enjoyment. I don't think the Taycan could do any better than the Model 3 (but at about twice the cost) since it's still a pretty large and heavy four door sedan. We will need to wait for the new Roader to better that. Anyway I would be driving a M3P now if not for the Roadster.
Both Carrera GT and 918 are limited edition super expensive cars that will not pose any threat to the 911. Porsche did dumb down power of Cayman which has a much better chassis than the 911. Mid-engined Audi R8 was also a much better car when it first came out and was considered a car that could dethrone the 911. But soon after VW acquired Porsche the R8 was never giving the performance it deserved. 911 is what makes Porsche Porsche and the reason why it could sell loads of Cayenne and Macan at greatly inflated prices. The is no way Porsche will let the electric Taycan to destroy that.
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I meant to write "History of what? The Panamera?" but didn't finish the thought.
"Better" is debatable, depending on your priorities (neutral vs oversteer). I've owned and tracked both (986 S and 996 GT3). I'd say the 996 is way more fun on the track, but a lot less forgiving with much lower margin for error.
A friend had one of those. It was a lot of fun (especially after he dialed up the boost).
Yes, but the Carrera GT and 918 also did have a quite more substantial sticker price
The Taycan Turbo S (which will be revealed in august) will be the top spec car. 0-100km/h in about 3.5 sec (so let's say 3.2 in the real world with Porsche standards). The price will also be substantial. About 150k-160k (ink VAT) EUR in Germany as starting price and then you need some options to cover your bases. The other cheaper models will follow later on, but the performance of those models will be more similar to Tesla 100D and 75D.
CarlK
Active Member
Yes, but the Carrera GT and 918 also did have a quite more substantial sticker price
The Taycan Turbo S (which will be revealed in august) will be the top spec car. 0-100km/h in about 3.5 sec (so let's say 3.2 in the real world with Porsche standards). The price will also be substantial. About 150k-160k (ink VAT) EUR in Germany as starting price and then you need some options to cover your bases. The other cheaper models will follow later on, but the performance of those models will be more similar to Tesla 100D and 75D.
That's what I kind of figured too but isn't 3.5 stated and 3.2 real world performance about the same as what Model 3 performance got? P100D can do 2.4 sec 0-60. Porsche should make its $150K EV more or less perform like that (I thought it benchmarked the Model S). Either Porsche is not able or not willing to make it that way. It's probable some of both.
Neutral is always better. You will have more options to tune the chassis to whatever is best to suit your likes. Oversteering forced upon you is never desirable not to mention it can be dangerous lot of times. In the early days 911 got killed, both figuratively and literally, by Ferrari on race tracks. Many begged Porsche to go mid-engine. Porsche never wanted to do that not for engineering reasons but that would not be the 911 anymore. It's only saved later by electronic stability and traction controls. Although don't think YOU are driving the car if you are such a purist.
Zhelko Dimic
Careful bull
Driving on the track for most of us is about fun, not competition. As such, 'better's is subjective. I had substantial experience with both 911 and Cayman and as such, I'd say 911 is more exciting(i.e. scary), while Cayman gives you more optionality in how to drive it. As one develops as a driver, 911 at first seems more challenging, which would also make it more fun, which is also what I've seen expereinced journalists talk about. BUt, as an owner, with plenty of seat time, there comes the time, where 911 doesn't feel challenging anymore, but limiting. I.e. you need to drive it on the rear axle, and manage it carefully to be safe, and Cayman gives you more options to play with.
But again, better is very subjective to what do you want out of the car, and where on driver development journey you are. For people that find 911 mass distribution challenges ridiculous, rather than charming, Cayman will always be better choice. For those that think 911 is charming, it's a valid point, and only if they spend exorbitant amount of time on the track, there may be a time when once you understand it well, and it becomes limiting and not charming...
I've got about 10 years with PCA, black for majority of that time.
For anything other than the track, I love my Tesla...
jkoya
NA2 NSX
Has Porsche announced the official dimensions, specifically the length and the height of the Taycan yet ? I've done some google searches, but haven't seen anything official.
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