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Porsche Mission E
- Thread starter MartinAustin
- Start date
I've never had a Porsche, but from what I've heard that's pretty normal.
The Mission E was the concept car and the project became the Taycan as it neared production. They aren't the same car, but they are related.
seattlite2004
Active Member
seattlite2004
Active Member
2020 Porsche Taycan First Drive: Proudly And Properly Electric
2020 Porsche Taycan First Drive: Proudly And Properly Electric
The synopsis of the above videos being the Porsche Taycan does not suck and is pretty freaking good.
2020 Porsche Taycan First Drive: Proudly And Properly Electric
The synopsis of the above videos being the Porsche Taycan does not suck and is pretty freaking good.
callmesam
Member
Journalism?
(Full Disclosure: Porsche flew me from Nuernberg, Germany to Copenhagen, Denmark, fed me fancy food, and put me up in three hotels along the route to Hamburg).
Overall seemed like a pretty balanced review. He dinged them for a 190 mile range, and the charger had issues. He shows the Supercharger network. Described a clunk when the transmission shifts.
Worth a read IMO.
RT
Cirrus MS100D
Member
I appreciate the Jalopnik review and feel it was nicely balanced and leaves me more confused about what the Taycan is supposed to be and why Porsche made the choices they made. The two-speed transmission makes no sense to me given the mediocre range and no better "single speed" performance of the Teslas. Would the range have been even worse without the two-speed? I don't really understand the dumb regen settings, but those could be tweaked in software. There was no mention in the article about any ADAS systems - I'm assuming the Taycan has at least some form of TACC, but what about lane-keeping assist?
What I'm left with is a car that's got a boatload of configurable options (yay!) that quickly add up (boo!) and kinda sorta doesn't really excel at any one particular thing. It's not "the fastest" (compared to the Raven S P100D, "slugfest" at the 'Ring TBD...), it doesn't have the cabin or people storage, it doesn't really have a tremendous road trip range, it's not cheap even in base form, it doesn't seem to have any advanced driver safety/convenience features, and the charging network isn't really up to par (compared to the Supercharger network) in the USA.
Like many on here, any other EV is a good EV IMO, but I feel like Porsche poured boatloads of time, money, and effort into this thing and I still don't know what boxes it checks for all but a select few. The suburbanites who drive Macans and Cayennes aren't going to want it because it's too small and not an SUV. The Panamera drivers may consider it, but I don't see a whole lot of Turbo, let alone Turbo Ses around me, so I think many of them are priced out. The 911 et al. folks will see it as too overweight and too big. Hopefully they learned a lot for ver 2.0
What I'm left with is a car that's got a boatload of configurable options (yay!) that quickly add up (boo!) and kinda sorta doesn't really excel at any one particular thing. It's not "the fastest" (compared to the Raven S P100D, "slugfest" at the 'Ring TBD...), it doesn't have the cabin or people storage, it doesn't really have a tremendous road trip range, it's not cheap even in base form, it doesn't seem to have any advanced driver safety/convenience features, and the charging network isn't really up to par (compared to the Supercharger network) in the USA.
Like many on here, any other EV is a good EV IMO, but I feel like Porsche poured boatloads of time, money, and effort into this thing and I still don't know what boxes it checks for all but a select few. The suburbanites who drive Macans and Cayennes aren't going to want it because it's too small and not an SUV. The Panamera drivers may consider it, but I don't see a whole lot of Turbo, let alone Turbo Ses around me, so I think many of them are priced out. The 911 et al. folks will see it as too overweight and too big. Hopefully they learned a lot for ver 2.0
jgs
Active Member
Disclaimer, I haven't yet read the Jalopnik article. However, my impression to date was that the transmission was to get a handle on heat at high speeds, something that people constantly rag on Tesla about. No?
Needsdecaf
Active Member
Full disclosure, in addition to my Model 3, I also own two Porsches.
A friend of mine who is also a Porsche owner and currently owns an X and a Model 3 P, and previously owned two S's (and whom I have to thank for persuading me to take the plunge and buy my Model 3) have been discussing this a LOT over the past few weeks. How, we thought, could a company like Porsche release a car with stats that were so, well, meh? Here's a ground up effort, 800 V architecture, 93kWh battery that's essentially the same 0-60 as a Model S Performance Raven, and has 100 miles fewer EPA range. What gives? I think we figured it out. More in a minute.
I think we need to set aside that the Porsche will be, well, a more complete and robust car. Overall the materials quality, fit and finish, etc. will be higher than the Model S. That's certainly worth something. Also, I would suspect that the dynamics of the Taycan will eclipse that of the Model S in terms of steering feel, ride, handling, etc. It's a Porsche. They do this stuff well. So that's also worth something. Whether it has VALUE to you as a buyer is up to your personal decision making process. But it does have worth. Finally, as a Porsche fan and owner, I will tell you that ALL of their cars are overly expensive, and they are very stingy with options. And yet for some reason we pay. We're all fools for some reason.
Back to the first point. I believe that Porsche does not have the confidence to throw as much power at the motors as Tesla does. Whether this is because Tesla has better battery tech, better inverters, or if Porsche is more risk adverse and Tesla is the fool, I won't say, but I believe that Porsche knew they didn't want to achieve the strong 0-60 the way that Tesla did...a massive power dump. So they devised the transmission, which not only gives better acceleration off the line but also stronger mid-range acceleration as well. The downside? Cost, complexity and likely a 10% plus hit in efficiency. In the Jalopnik article, they cite some off the cuff consumption figures which do put it in the range of 10%-maybe 15% higher than an S. I do also believe that by keeping the speed up while not pushing as much electricity, they can keep things cooler and that adds to their "repeated performance" statistics.
In any event, that's the best we've been able to come up with after noodling it over for nearly 3 weeks now
Eno Deb
Active Member
That makes little sense, since the Taycan switches into second gear at around 100 km/h, so it will not make a difference for 0-60 mph times. I think it's pretty clear that the gearbox is all about high-speed performance. This is not only important for the Autobahn, but also track performance.
diamond.g
Active Member
What I am curious about is the cooling and usage of the front motor at high speeds, especially since they cannot disconnect it from the wheels like they can the rear.
Needsdecaf
Active Member
Why does it make little sense? EV performance falls off as the motor RPM increases. Low first gear means greater torque multiplication for hard launches. I.E. better performance with a less powerful motor. Then shift into overdrive to keep the revs lower at higher speed and allow stronger higher speed performance.
This has been largely unnecessary because even though performance at higher speeds is reduced, it's still quite brisk well above the limit in most places. Except Germany, with the remaining de-restricted autobahn sections.
I suspect that Porsche doesn't have the same "100% EV" focus as Tesla even with a ground up new architecture. From aerodynamics to interior I think Tesla always pushed for more efficiency whereas Porsche needs to deliver a "Porsche." Plus the loss from the transmission and added weight. Overall the Taycan is substantially heavier than the S, even while it is smaller.
If the next Model S is a major re-do and includes learning from Model 3 like the cooling & air handling system as well as reduced wiring from Model Y then there may be an even bigger gap in weight in favor of the S.
If the next Model S is a major re-do and includes learning from Model 3 like the cooling & air handling system as well as reduced wiring from Model Y then there may be an even bigger gap in weight in favor of the S.
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