Porsche Mission E

[FlatSix911]

This is the EV that Porsche should be manufacturing... Opinions & Insights: The case for a new Porsche 914 EV | Porsche Club of America

Opinions & Insights: The case for a new Porsche 914 EV
This column appears in the January 2019 issue of Porsche Panorama as the Editor's Note.

I’ve mentioned in this column before, although I’m a fan of Porsche’s past entry-level efforts from the 912, 914, and 924 to the original 986 Boxster, I’ve accepted Porsche’s explanation as to why it no longer feels the need to play in that sandbox. Ironically though, my first drive in the decidedly non-entry-level $150K plus Taycan Turbo has irrevocably changed my point of view on Porsche’s low-end strategy. Porsche desperately needs a new 914, and it needs to be electric.

Particularly among younger brand devotees, the existence of the Taycan, and what it represents, is going to cause an aspirational sea change — electricity is going to become the perceived gold-standard in performance. It’s already been noted by others that a Taycan Turbo S is faster in many situations than a McLaren 570S. How long will it be before people take note of the fact that a Taycan Turbo can hang with a GT3? No longer will Porsche’s current entry-level solution, a five-to-ten-year-old combustion-only Boxster or Cayman, suffice for someone in the 25-to-40 demographic. And since it will likely be 10 to 15 years or more before any Taycan depreciates sufficiently to become affordable for younger people, Porsche is in danger of losing an entire generation.

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[FlatSix911]

A bit embarrassing... Porsche Taycan Turbo S is new least-efficient EV: 68 MPGe, 192 miles EPA range - Electrek

The EPA rating for the new Porsche Taycan Turbo S has been posted to fueleconomy.gov, and the results aren’t all that pretty.
The Taycan is rated at just 68 MPGe with 192 miles of range, despite the car’s large 93 kWh battery.

While not a big drop from the Taycan Turbo, the Taycan Turbo S and its higher power delivery resulted in 1 less MPGe, and 9 miles less range than the Turbo’s 69 MPGe and 201 miles. The Porsche Taycan Turbo S’s low efficiency is not unexpected. The Turbo S is more powerful than the Turbo, so we figured it would be a little less efficient.

This rating puts the car at the bottom of the heap for current electric vehicle efficiency. It is the least-efficient electric vehicle currently available in the US, taking the spot previously held by the Taycan Turbo. It is less efficient than large electric SUV/crossovers like the Audi e-tron and Tesla Model X.

 

[Candleflame]

50kwh to drive 100 miles is just rediculous. Where does all this energy go? Is it a secret time travel device? Can it jump to light speed?
If we take a i.e. a Tesla Model 3 which uses like 40% of that to drive the car then we must assume that like 60% of energy is wasted as heat rather than momentum. So does the car just get insanely hot while it is driven?

 

[FutureShock]

You’ve heard of ICEs that were ‘gas hogs’?

Porsche makes ‘electron hogs’.
.

 

[ICUDoc]

Just for the record, I suspect when people start driving the Taycan, it will prove to be more efficient than what we are seeing reported now.
And now- we wait...

 

[avoigt]

Just for the record, I suspect when people start driving the Taycan, it will prove to be more efficient than what we are seeing reported now.
And now- we wait...

The opposite is actually true. First reports are out already in the US and I am having first hand information sitting here in Germany too. Expect more bad news about the Taycan.

Also many issues with charging and Ionity which males the experience of the vehicle really bad. Navigation information about range left is not reliable. Navigation does not show for instance charger from ignite so you somehow need to calculate yourself how to go from A to B.

I expect many who get one will sell in a few months realizing range anxiety takes its toll.

 

[ICUDoc]

The opposite is actually true

Wow, that would be disappointing.
Porsche have made some spectacular vehicles, so I was looking forward greatly to the Taycan. And I remember their CEO talking up EVs back when Musk was being pilloried by every other legacy carmaker. He knew which way was up even back in 2013.
Oh well- we'll see...

 

[Candleflame]

You’ve heard of ICEs that were ‘gas hogs’?

Porsche makes ‘electron hogs’.
.

It is supereasy to be a gasoline hog because most of the energy from diesel or petrol goes unused out of the tailpipe or leaves the engine via heat. Even the most efficient slow turning ship diesels only reach 50% combustion efficiency with also much less waste heat as they run on like 50rpm or smth. That's completely different to an electric motor which is like 95-98% efficient. So the question remains.... where do the electrons go? Yes, the car is heavy, yes it is less aerodynamic but that does not explain where these copious amounts of electrons go.

 

[wdolson]

50kwh to drive 100 miles is just rediculous. Where does all this energy go? Is it a secret time travel device? Can it jump to light speed?
If we take a i.e. a Tesla Model 3 which uses like 40% of that to drive the car then we must assume that like 60% of energy is wasted as heat rather than momentum. So does the car just get insanely hot while it is driven?

I'm not surprised at the poor efficiency of the iPace and eTron, those are styled like convention SUVs which are terrible aerodynamically. I would expect a sports car maker to know how to make an aerodynamic car. Porsche may have chosen tires for performance rather than efficiency, which may be a factor. But all the factors in the poor range is somewhat of a mystery. When people take their Taycan to the track it's going to self limit on the backstretch like the current Model S but it won't be because the car is overheating like the S, but because the battery dropped below 10% charge.

On another thread someone posted and article a few weeks back that all the legacy automakers are struggling to make real EVs that are even on par with the Model S circa 2013. Meanwhile Tesla is cruising along with one of the best selling cars in the industry. Some of the short range EVs out there are OK and they are beginning to look like real cars, but all the legacy car makers are falling flat when trying to produce a car that has the range and size of Tesla's offerings.

The few advantages the Taycan has over the Model S will be eclipsed in another year or so. First the plaid Model S will come out, followed by the next gen Roadster. At that point the Taycan will be all hat and no cattle.

Looking at how badly the rest of the industry is failing it really shows how amazing Tesla's feats have been. They have made compelling cars with the best range in the world, great performance, at competitive prices, and threw in the best charging network to boot. It's turning out that it's a lot more difficult than it looks.

 

[CrayZ1]

I enjoy how Porsche charges US owners $1000 for the EVSE as 'mandatory optional equipment'. WTF? They assume the Taycan is going to be their first EV? They assume that somebody who shops for $200k cars can't afford a wall charger? I would imagine most buyers will have a home L2 charger. I've never used a factory EVSE except to gather data for reports. I have 4 EVSE's active.

I was going to take a serious look at the Taycan, but I don't like being gamed. To config an Taycan 4S to match a I-Pace HSE trim (~$85k) is just over $153k, but would still be missing features that the Jaguar has. OK, I know you're paying for badging, but that a pretty big differential.

The Porsche weighs as much as the MS100P or Jaguar I-Pace. So weight saving isn't something you are buying.

 

[FutureShock]

It is supereasy to be a gasoline hog because most of the energy from diesel or petrol goes unused out of the tailpipe or leaves the engine via heat. Even the most efficient slow turning ship diesels only reach 50% combustion efficiency with also much less waste heat as they run on like 50rpm or smth. That's completely different to an electric motor which is like 95-98% efficient.

So the question remains.... where do the electrons go? Yes, the car is heavy, yes it is less aerodynamic but that does not explain where these copious amounts of electrons go.

You got me, I have no idea how the Taycan would up so inefficient.

I can only assume it's a lot of little things beyond the biggies of aerodynamics and battery energy density, all adding up to a collective Porsche engineering team forehead-slap along the lines of, "D'oh!! How'd we wind up with so little range, especially on a PERFORMANCE car that's going to eat through charge like a rabid wolverine through an all-you-can-eat meat-lovers buffet!?!"

TLDR: Tesla's been doing this for awhile and doing it right, and they know how to optimize. Johnny-come-lately EV makers, not so much.

.

 

[J1mbo]

Am sure the powered driver aids like PDCC and rear steering don't help range much. Plus those wheels...

 

[CrayZ1]

305/30/ZR21 is a lot of it. You see the same thing in EPA mileage between the base model and track models of cars. Some track cars get tragic fuel economy ratings.

 

[diamond.g]

Am sure the powered driver aids like PDCC and rear steering don't help range much. Plus those wheels...

Don't all of those run off the 12V DC-DC converter? They can't possibly use that much power.

 

[noicepls]

The few advantages the Taycan has over the Model S will be eclipsed in another year or so. First the plaid Model S will come out, followed by the next gen Roadster. At that point the Taycan will be all hat and no cattle. Looking at how badly the rest of the industry is failing it really shows how amazing Tesla's feats have been. They have made compelling cars with the best range in the world, great performance, at competitive prices, and threw in the best charging network to boot. It's turning out that it's a lot more difficult than it looks.

Really?? It does not matter to Porsche buyers, of which there are many: "Deep-pocketed customers aren’t complaining. And they’ve made Porsche the world’s most profitable mass-market luxury auto brand. The Stuttgart automaker enjoyed operating profits of $4.75 billion last year, helping it boost its workforce by 9 percent, to 32,325 employees. Net profit margin was a remarkable 16.6 percent—are you listening, Elon Musk?—with $28.5 billion in sales on a record 256,000 global vehicles. Punch your calculators, and Porsche is earning just over $18,500 in profit on every car it sells. For budding CEOs and CFOs, I have one question: Should Porsche care...?"

Text source: Why Porsche is the World’s Most Profitable Mass-Market Luxury Auto Brand - Worth

 

[gowthamn]

Yes, the range is disappointing. But Tesla does not drive like a Porsche. So either I wait till Porsche makes a bit more efficient car or use the car for shorter distances if I buy now.

 

[J1mbo]

Don't all of those run off the 12V DC-DC converter? They can't possibly use that much power.

Probably. Wouldn't surprise me if the range impact was > 5%. Every little helps

 

[ICUDoc]

It is a myth that people who buy expensive cars have such deep pockets that they don’t care about the price of extras.
1. Maybe they are stretching near their limit to buy their dream car
2. Maybe they are tight-fisted!
3. Maybe they have ideas about value - the base price for the Porsche is high, and (for me) the value equation (already poor due to the range issue) is destroyed by the farcical, nearly PUNITIVE, prices for the options, many of which would be considered must-haves by many.
For me: knock 40%off and I’ll consider a Taycan. But far more likely is waiting for the TriMotor S, or the Roadster. I just hope Elon doesn’t throw the baby out with the bath water and allows us to pick the options we want (eg preserve range with sensible tyre and aero options, but allow the crazy handling and acceleration of the TriMotor with trick suspension).

 

[FlatSix911]

The truth about high net worth individuals...

It is a myth that people who buy expensive cars have such deep pockets that they don’t care about the price of extras.
1. Maybe they are stretching near their limit to buy their dream car
2. Maybe they are tight-fisted!
3. Maybe they have ideas about value - the base price for the Porsche is high, and (for me) the value equation (already poor due to the range issue) is destroyed by the farcical, nearly PUNITIVE, prices for the options, many of which would be considered must-haves by many.
For me: knock 40%off and I’ll consider a Taycan. But far more likely is waiting for the TriMotor S, or the Roadster. I just hope Elon doesn’t throw the baby out with the bath water and allows us to pick the options we want (eg preserve range with sensible tyre and aero options, but allow the crazy handling and acceleration of the TriMotor with trick suspension).

Another truth... A fool and his money are soon parted.

Really?? It does not matter to Porsche buyers, of which there are many: "Deep-pocketed customers aren’t complaining. And they’ve made Porsche the world’s most profitable mass-market luxury auto brand. The Stuttgart automaker enjoyed operating profits of $4.75 billion last year, helping it boost its workforce by 9 percent, to 32,325 employees. Net profit margin was a remarkable 16.6 percent—are you listening, Elon Musk?—with $28.5 billion in sales on a record 256,000 global vehicles. Punch your calculators, and Porsche is earning just over $18,500 in profit on every car it sells. For budding CEOs and CFOs, I have one question: Should Porsche care...?"

Text source: Why Porsche is the World’s Most Profitable Mass-Market Luxury Auto Brand - Worth

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[kilpatds]

The opposite is actually true. First reports are out already in the US and I am having first hand information sitting here in Germany too. Expect more bad news about the Taycan.

Do you have links you can point me to?