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Porsche Taycan Turbo vs Model 3 vs Roadster

Discussion in 'Roadster 2020+' started by TimothyHW3, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. TimothyHW3

    TimothyHW3 Member

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    I did a Porsche Taycan Turbo run recently and made a kind of extended video comparing charging speed, efficiency, range and the charging infrastructure.



    In my oppinion, the Taycan can barely hold up to a Model 3 in terms of range (at higher capacity) and efficiency and once the Roadster comes out at the same price point as the Taycan it will be pretty much game over for Porsche. So unless you care for the brand or just wanna show off based on the brand, there will really be no reason to purchase a Porsche at this price point.
     
  2. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    i also had this opportunity and i must say that the handling and general road feel of the Porsche is in a league of its own compared to any of the current offering from Tesla...... Yes range is one thing and infrastructure for long distance travel is another and they are hughly important but they are not what Porsche is selling to they are selling to the utter fun of driving down a winding road. and if this is not enough for your driving needs then it can also handle the track quite admirably......

    so unless Mr Musk and Tesla put a lot of time on that part of the package for the roadster it won’t make any difference if the roadster accelerates the fastest or even has the highest top speed..... the Bugattis or the Koenigseggs of the world will never compete for the same buyer as a Porsche or Ferrari for this very reason. the pure thrill of driving. forget the numbers game it not important.... so there you go i am certainly not canceling my order but i’ll get the Porsche for the thrill of driving at least for now. :)
     
  3. TimothyHW3

    TimothyHW3 Member

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    Could you care to say what handling exactly? Ok the Model 3's steering wheel could be better, I admit to that (you can actually have replacements), but if you are from Switzerland you will barely drive that Taycan more than 100-120:) And on a "winding road" what exactly is better than a M3P? I didn't really experience anything that will blow my mind away that M3P already doesn't have.

    So in reality you will be experiencing all the negative effects of the Taycan without any benefit of the high speed efficiency bonus or the handling on high speeds nor the insulation. Unless you drive it on a track:)

    And what I am arguing is that there certainly are some small differences, but you can basically get a Taycan for 55,000$ and that is not a small feat!

    So just wandering what will grant a Porsche purchase except the "kick off" it, especially in Switzerland? :)
     
  4. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    #4 felixtb, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
    The M3P is a lovely little machine and with the new more track oriented track mode it’s even more fun to drive but there is just no comparison to what Porsche has managed to create with a LOT of whistles and bells to make it happen. To me it is like comparing apples to oranges they are of similar seize, shape, weight etc, etc but they are really just different you can’t compare them on an eggs to eggs level. It’s just not fair to compare directly. So I guess all I am saying is don’t. Because they are different and for different things and different people.

    I own a roadster, model X and a model 3P and have owned two different Ss and a previous X and am very long TSLA and have reserved the founders Roadster 2020 so I am a fan. :) but you also have to be fair, and Porsche has done one hell of a good job on the Taycan!!
     
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  5. MichaelP90DL

    MichaelP90DL Active Member

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    During this bloody CV crisis, I can't find any eggs. Or toilet paper. Or paper towels. Or milk. Or cheese. However, if I could locate two eggs, it would be interesting to compare them. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of crows or ravens in my neighborhood. I wonder where their nests are.
     
  6. MassPlay

    MassPlay Member

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    Different cars for different folks. The M3P is a great entry vehicle with fit and finish that's "North American 25-35K car" quality in fitment and materials. On the track its fun for a few laps until it overheats and you have to come in. On the highway its fun up to about 70 after which the acceleration tails off and pretty badly and any ICE sports car can drag it badly. The built in screen is great, however if you want other apps then its a closed garden where "Elon knows best what you "want"". For the "point and squirt" around town, its hard to beat the Model 3, but if you want a quality interior, something that will take some spirited driving without overheating, and can play north of 70 mph, and is extensible w/phone integration then in its current form its not the car for you.

    The great thing now is that the other EVs on the market are forcing Tesla to start upping their game. Already they're looking at the "winter overhead" that the current models incur vs the competition, and have switched over to a heat pump for the Model Y. Extensions are also grudgingly coming as well such as the txt integration that Elon maintained was "useless and not needed" for years despite it being at the top of the feature request list. The Taycan forces Tesla to make the Roadster a true sports car, not just a EV version of the Veyron.
     
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  7. TimothyHW3

    TimothyHW3 Member

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    #7 TimothyHW3, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
    Sorry, but this is exactly the reason I made the video - same old same old from people who never drove a Model 3 or don't own a new one.

    First - overheating. I regularly drive my model 3 AWD (not P) with 200+km/h (120-140+mph) and have 0(as in zero, nada) overheating. From 150 to 200km/h+ all the time, due to overtakings and trucks which is actually worse than driving straight 200+.

    The last run I did was from Leipzig to Berlin which is about 170km and I did in about 1 hour. You can do the math there. I also show in the video where I did avg. of 100mph over 100km and not a single overheating (you can watch the video) I don't do drag races, but I am yet to see a situation where an ICE regular car on the road can stand a chance from overtaking...

    Here is a Video from Bjorn Nyland on the subject

    Here is another one


    Granted, the M3P is not a sports car, but there is certainly no overheating. And unless you intend on driving either car on flat 250km/h, which I doubt anyone can outside of the track, 99% of the people will not come even remotely close to anything related to overheating.

    The 70mph you mentioned just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about because at 70mph I can barely feel the motors running(it actually just runs the rear one, the front is idle at these slow speeds - 70mph might sound like much to you, but in Germany we drive at 70mph on one lane roads...)

    Second fit and finish, I talked about it in the video. Tesla has its manufacturing issues, but I didn't see anything that screams 150,000$ more...My M3 is actually perfect in the panel gaps. It has some minor issues with some cables rattling, but this was fixed. Can I expect more, sure, of course. But I still wouldn't pay 150,000$ (which I can btw), because I don't see any benefit there.

    Closed garden - actually they are thinking about opening it for developers now that you said that. Not that you can do anything on the resistive screen on a Taycan and don't understand why this is an argument at all since Tesla is the only manufacturer that actually has apps and webbrowers and Spotify, Netflix etc. Sure, you can have apple car play, but on an 7" screen? Not fun.

    As for the rest - yes, it is like an iPhone and I am an Android user. So this is why I don't like a lot of the approaches that Tesla makes and as much as I would like someone to beat them to their game, I don't see that happening any time soon (maybe in 5-8 years)

    I am fair. I am very, very fair. This is why I present all the angles.
    You keep saying that, but don't present any facts? What I am mostly discussing in the video is technology - this is what I care about and this is what we are comparing. Wether the Porsche, with all its technology and experts can beat a "Start up". And the answer is simply no.
    Tesla has the most efficient DUs, has the biggest charing network, has the better and cheaper battery cells.

    Porsche needs to go the overkill to have 800V and TWO! inverters just to make the car work on 50kW and 150kW network (by the way, check if you purchased that 150kW option and wether you will need it in Switzerland, because you might not, but you also might, not sure), because none of them support the 800V system, just to make the car charge so fast, because it is so inefficient.

    They have to add a heavy transmission that can break and needs mantianance just so that they can be remotely close to the Model 3's efficiency at high speeds and still can't beat it.

    Of course Porsche can make a car, have its insides designed fully, have a great built quality (while the panel gaps issue, is still a issue even at Porsche) - we all knew that even before the Taycan. But ultimately this is an EV, with all its "downsides".

    And we have to remember that the Porsche has an active suspension, of course it will handle better than an M3P. I really feel like the M3P is at least 10,000$ more expensive than it should be and must have active suspension, but I guess this will come soon.

    And the question is - can it actually be a rival at this price point with so bad technology to something like a Roadster or even a M3P? And the answer is unfortunately it can't. The only reason people will buy that car is the brand and the status that comes with it. And maybe service (although I hear only good things about Tesla Switzerland - they seem to have the service on a high level there)
    But for all other purposes, it will fail badly for anyone who isn't an EV enthusiast and just wants a Porsche that they can drive fast on the Autobahn. I hope that having to stop every 150km to charge and then only find broken chargers like I did, doesn't ruin the whole "EV thing" for a lot of people...
     
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  8. bhzmark

    bhzmark Active Member

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    Anybody who owns a M3P, and even anyone paying a little attention on these forums, would know that this is not a problem for M3P. Weird how people so confidently express utter nonsense.
     
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  9. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    Yep. Then again internet trolling is the most popular cottage industry for the minimally talented.
     
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  10. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    I think the basic problem here is that there seems to be such a strong sentiment of Tesla can do no wrong and anybody else are no good at what they do on this forum..... same thing in reverse on the Porsche forum...... it’s really quite boring!

    you do not see why anyone would pay three more M3s to get one car that does not seem to offer enough more, where others do see the interest in that because of reasons of apples and oranges. you say i give no facts.... it stands to reason that the difference between wood imitation on a plastic dash, fairly flat seats with no cornering hold for the body, the screen coule in hard plastic the steering wheel with about 50% plastic finishes is more like a Mitsubishi EVO than a Porsche in it price range. Where the porsche does the Nordschleife in 7:42 and no one seems to want to track the M3P there.......not even Tesla...... there is an estimated 8:01 time done on a regular day so without finishing the track........ the M3P and the EVO are two AMAZING cars!

    i agree it does not overheat in any meaningful way unless it’s really hot day, then it does... but again certainly not at 70mph more like north of 100mph. but that’s not the point. Porsche Taycan and Tesla M3 are not comparable in any meaningful way except both being electric...... that’s the point!

    compare the M3P or regular M3 to the EVO and then we are talking, or, even better, to the coming VW ID3 performance version which will be in the same price range....... that we truly be an interesting compare and here i really hope that Tesla keep their advance because otherwise they will begin to have problems....... which would be terrible!
     
  11. TimothyHW3

    TimothyHW3 Member

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    At this point I don't really believe you own a Tesla.
    First the wood on the dash is real 100% wood.
    Second, how many times do you run the car on Nürburgring?! Who cares about track times, you will be driving the car around Zürich, if you are swiss, at 50km/h at 60%(at least) less efficiency then a M3. And if you happen to need the extra speed you can always get it from the 3, no need for a Porsche unless you fancy brands.

    And finally, have you ever driven the car at speeds above 120km/h? 100mph is 160km/h. This is cruising speed in Germany, this is nothing - the front motor is not even running at these speeds, what kind of overheating are we talking about here?! This definitely confirms that you do not own a Model 3 nor have ever driven it faster than 120km/h.
    There are multiple tests, linked in this thread, of speeds way above 200km/h(130mph) and even long runs at top speed at summer temperature to know that the car does NOT overheat in any normal German griving.
    Like I said before, I have also tested it numerous times around here in the summer. I had an avg speed of 100mph or(160km/h) on my channel last summer at 28°, on a 120km stretch, which you can only achieve if you drive way above 200km/h with regular traffic.
    And finally, VW ID3 - this is your dead giveaway - the ID3 in its first version, without a ready software, speced at 58kWh is about 5000€ short of a 3P, with 20" and AP+77kWh. So what are we even comparing here?!
    VW are not even sure when or if they will have a higher trim model like a P and they only said if they do it will be priced way higher than the regular 77kWh which is expected to start at around 3 price, but at base price without extras(with VW extra you are looking at 10,000$ more). And it comes with Trommelbremse at the back, at the same price nevertheless! How can it rival Model 3 without proper breaking pads?!?!
    And a VW ID3 with this bulky form can NEVER play in the same league as Model 3 - not because of M3's superior breaking system or drive unit, but because of handling and drag coefficient.

    VW is so far behind, it is not a joke anymore. And I said that with a sad tone. And those are facts.
    I think you are just trolling here...
     
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  12. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    You are such a dud but that's ok go on ranting I certainly will no longer try to even have a normal discussion with you. Utterly pointless!

    Please go back to the Model 3 forums where I am sure you are appreciated .... or maybe not.......

    PS after looking even closer to the edge of the original dash MAYBE the last millimetre is wood......... I'll give you that, just took it off to stick in my carbon dash and was surprised at the nonexistent veneer but maybe literally the last 0.5mm is real wood when I look at it again.... IMG_0351.jpg cudos! :)
     
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