Porsche Taycan Vs Tesla Model S: Review, Road Test, Race, Charging

[FactsBot]

It's still 0.1s off since the 1 foot rollout is 0.21s (see the 0-60 with and without rollout).

Both this calculation Porsche Taycan Vs Tesla Model S: Review, Road Test, Race, Charging and this method Porsche Taycan Vs Tesla Model S: Review, Road Test, Race, Charging on both videos indicates ~0.3sec.

Easy sanity check:
time = sqrt(2*length/acceleration)

if acceleration = 1g ~=10m/s^2

then time = sqrt(2*0.3/10) = 0.245 sec.

In real life however it takes more time since acceleration is not a constant 1g from start but it has a ramp up as you can see it on the graph.

 

[Racerx22b]

Thanks. This matches their Raven time. Both the 0-60 and the 1/4 mile with the +0.3s.

So this confirms that Top Gear either has no idea how to properly test the Tesla or purposely rigged the test to make the Taycan appear to be faster.

I don't know how any reputable organization testing cars wouldn't be scratching their heads and calling everyone they know to see what it is they're doing wrong when there is endless YouTube vids of these cars running mid to high 10s in all kinds of conditions (not just at the dragstrip). Or make a huge deal in the article over the fact that their test car performed so poorly. Or even disclose that they used results from a previous test.

Top Gear is basically the National Enquirer of car testing in my opinion. Complete joke.

 

[dfwatt]

True. Everybody knows Tesla is much faster than Taycan.
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Please explain in what Universe advertising Bitcoin has anything to do with this thread? You are violating rules of the road here. And it's interesting the monitors for some reason are asleep on this.

 

[Racerx22b]

It's still 0.1s off since the 1 foot rollout is 0.21s (see the 0-60 with and without rollout).

While I am 100% confident that Top Gear is a group of ass hats, I can live with a .1sec variation considering all the possible variables (weather, surface, wind, driver weight, etc...). Having said that I am probably 240lbs fully clothed. I think I have a few lbs on their test driver. LOL

 

[Racerx22b]

Good news! Just got the power update via new software. I'm gonna repeat the testing at full battery, full geeked out Ludicrous mode, and with launch mode in the next few days. Interested to see if it makes any significant change. I am gonna guess low 10.5s. Hoping for 10.4s but doubtful, especially on a public road.

 

[dfwatt]

So this confirms that Top Gear either has no idea how to properly test the Tesla or purposely rigged the test to make the Taycan appear to be faster.

I don't know how any reputable organization testing cars wouldn't be scratching their heads and calling everyone they know to see what it is they're doing wrong when there is endless YouTube vids of these cars running mid to high 10s in all kinds of conditions (not just at the dragstrip). Or make a huge deal in the article over the fact that their test car performed so poorly. Or even disclose that they used results from a previous test.

Top Gear is basically the National Enquirer of car testing in my opinion. Complete joke.

What's actually more surprising and even more troubling is the number of people here on this thread who either don't see that or who have spent volumes and volumes of pseudoscience explaining why the Top Gear result is representative and / or accurate. I don't get that. At the very least it's disappointing that commercially incentivised lies and what is basically advertising for an iconic brand is simply not transparently obvious in terms of what Top Gear did. The real question is how much did they get paid to do it, in terms of clicks and advertising Revenue.

Porsche is simply too good an outfit for this kind of crap. They don't need dishonest advertising to support their new vehicle. They just don't, and I suspect that if anyone at Porsche is paying attention to this they are troubled by the amount of Swiss cheese Top Gear generated to get them a result that on face value looks good. On deeper examination of course it doesn't, and if anything it actually hurts them by virtue of association with such trashy 'testing'.

 

[dfwatt]

Good news! Just got the power update via new software. I'm gonna repeat the testing at full battery, full geeked out Ludicrous mode, and with launch mode in the next few days. Interested to see if it makes any significant change. I am gonna guess low 10.5s. Hoping for 10.4s but doubtful, especially on a public road.

Yes doing that on a public road for sure is not a good idea. If you get caught decent chance you would be charged not with speeding but with endangerment. Instant loss of license. Not worth it.

 

[Daniel in SD]

What's actually more surprising and even more troubling is the number of people here on this thread who either don't see that or who have spent volumes and volumes of pseudoscience explaining why the Top Gear result is representative and / or accurate. I don't get that. At the very least it's disappointing that commercially incentivised lies and what is basically advertising for an iconic brand is simply not transparently obvious in terms of what Top Gear did. The real question is how much did they get paid to do it, in terms of clicks and advertising Revenue.

Porsche is simply too good an outfit for this kind of crap. They don't need dishonest advertising to support their new vehicle. They just don't, and I suspect that if anyone at Porsche is paying attention to this they are troubled by the amount of Swiss cheese Top Gear generated to get them a result that on face value looks good. On deeper examination of course it doesn't, and if anything it actually hurts them by virtue of association with such trashy 'testing'.

So you're saying that the Model S (with the software available when they tested it) is quicker through the 1/4 mile than a Taycan Turbo S?
It seems like they just didn't use launch mode or 1 foot rollout. I doubt it was a conspiracy or payoff.

 

[Racerx22b]

Yes doing that on a public road for sure is not a good idea. If you get caught decent chance you would be charged not with speeding but with endangerment. Instant loss of license. Not worth it.

There are public roads then there are "public roads". I appreciate the concern tho. All precautions will be taken.

 

[dfwatt]

So you're saying that the Model S (with the software available when they tested it) is quicker through the 1/4 mile than a Taycan Turbo S?
It seems like they just didn't use launch mode or 1 foot rollout. I doubt it was a conspiracy or payoff.

Come on Daniel. You should know I'm not a conspiracy theorist. It's simple incompetence and / or a clickbaiting motivation to create drama that may not be there.

It's simply incontrovertible fact that in the context of literally dozens of documented runs that 10.5/10.6 is reasonably optimal quarter mile times for the Model S Raven, properly launched and in a decent state of charge. It's entirely possible that with the latest firmware update you might see consistent 10.4 times. In any case, the numbers that Top Gear produced were either fabricated or generated in the context of grossly incompetent testing methods. Or perhaps it's a little bit of both.

But it doesn't matter. The result is not credible. What a real test would show between an optimally launched taycan and an optimally launched Raven is an open question. I suspect it's going to be very close. It's possible that the Porsche might win I just don't know. What I do know is that the test generated by Top Gear is a joke.

 

[Racerx22b]

So you're saying that the Model S (with the software available when they tested it) is quicker through the 1/4 mile than a Taycan Turbo S?
It seems like they just didn't use launch mode or 1 foot rollout. I doubt it was a conspiracy or payoff.

Based on all available evidence, the Model S has many recorded runs in the 10.5 and 10.6 range. The Taycan did a 10.69 so one would have to think that the Model S is still the 1/4 mile EV king. It is clear that TG did not have the Model S in the proper settings to provide the best possible performance. Based on the video from TG, it appears the Taycan was in the correct settings to provide the best possible times.

The main point of this post (well at least my main point) is that the Tesla was not properly represented. That is indisputable. What remains to be seen is that if the Model S (in the proper mode) will beat the Taycan when lined up side by side. All I want to see is each car get a fair shot at displaying it's best possible performance. I would also like to see how the performance changes after multiple runs. This is what Porsche is really claiming is their advantage. But nobody has done that so this would also be cool to see. I would suggest doing back to back runs down to about 50% SOC on the Tesla with about 5-10min breaks between each run. I am guessing the Porsche would really start to shine as the race count goes up.

 

[dfwatt]

Based on all available evidence, the Model S has many recorded runs in the 10.5 and 10.6 range. The Taycan did a 10.69 so one would have to think that the Model S is still the 1/4 mile EV king. It is clear that TG did not have the Model S in the proper settings to provide the best possible performance. Based on the video from TG, it appears the Taycan was in the correct settings to provide the best possible times.

The main point of this post (well at least my main point) is that the Tesla was not properly represented. That is indisputable. What remains to be seen is that if the Model S (in the proper mode) will beat the Taycan when lined up side by side. All I want to see is each car get a fair shot at displaying it's best possible performance. I would also like to see how the performance changes after multiple runs. This is what Porsche is really claiming is their advantage. But nobody has done that so this would also be cool to see. I would suggest doing back to back runs down to about 50% SOC on the Tesla with about 5-10min breaks between each run. I am guessing the Porsche would really start to shine as the race count goes up.

Yes it seems pretty likely that the taycan has better heat management and resists heat soaking better than the current Model S. I suspect fairly soon and probably coincident with the Plaid drivetrain introduction we're going to see a version of track mode on the model S that is at least as good as what's on the model 3 track mode currently in terms of reducing heat soaking and giving a longer time interval of optimum max power. It's pretty obvious that the Prototype that they ran at Nurburgring must have had really great heat management to run a 7:20.

I'm a little bit surprised that somebody like Mountain Pass hasn't introduced either a Mist spraying system to increase heat exchange on the model 3 radiator or some other way of reducing heat soaking and allowing longer Max performance. Of course you could swap out the antifreeze for just water but that's got a whole lot of downsides in exchange for the upside of higher specific heat of water versus antifreeze mixtures.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm a little bit surprised that somebody like Mountain Pass hasn't introduced either a Mist spraying system to increase heat exchange on the model 3 radiator or some other way of reducing heat soaking and allowing longer Max performance. Of course you could swap out the antifreeze for just water but that's got a whole lot of downsides in exchange for the upside of higher specific heat of water versus antifreeze mixtures.

I asked about this a while back and they said they didn't think the radiator was the limiting factor:
P3D+ Second Track Day - thoughts

 

[dfwatt]

I asked about this a while back and they said they didn't think the radiator was the limiting factor:
P3D+ Second Track Day - thoughts

Interesting. That would imply that the problem is coolant rate of flow. And / or coolant volume? But I am curious why they thought heat exchange couldn't be improved. Of course you can always improve some aspect of it. Oh well, it's a question for the ultra tweakers!

 

[Eno Deb]

Based on all available evidence, the Model S has many recorded runs in the 10.5 and 10.6 range.

Is there a documented example that was measured without subtracting rollout from the 1/4 mile time?

What remains to be seen is that if the Model S (in the proper mode) will beat the Taycan when lined up side by side. All I want to see is each car get a fair shot at displaying it's best possible performance. I would also like to see how the performance changes after multiple runs. This is what Porsche is really claiming is their advantage. But nobody has done that so this would also be cool to see.

Indeed.

 

[Racerx22b]

Is there a documented example that was measured without subtracting rollout from the 1/4 mile time?

According to our resident math professor this is not needed. He or she has it all figured out with a formula.

 

[bhzmark]

Is there a documented example that was measured without subtracting rollout from the 1/4 mile time?

Is there a documented example of the Taycan that was confirmed to be measured without the 1 foot rollout from the 1/4 mile time? Is that what TopGear normally does?

Let's compare to other Top Gear episodes where they test multiple cars with known 1/4 mile times. For instance recently they tested the Model 3 vs AMG C63 vs BMW M3 vs Guila. What were the Top Gear 1/4 miles times for those cars?

Oh, oops somehow, despite Top Gear usually testing cars in the 1/4 mile, in this comparo they didn't use the 1/4 test and instead did 1/2 mile test!

I wonder why they would decide to use a 1/2 mile test instead of the more common 1/4 mile test when they compare the Tesla Model 3 to the other cars? Why would they do that?

TopGear = the last gasps and lingering limp twitches from the dead ICE legacy makers and supporting media.

Tesla Model 3 vs M3, C63 and Giulia: Top Gear series 27

 

[nativewolf]

Is there a documented example of the Taycan that was confirmed to be measured without the 1 foot rollout from the 1/4 mile time? Is that what TopGear normally does?

Let's compare to other Top Gear episodes where they test multiple cars with known 1/4 mile times. For instance recently they tested the Model 3 vs AMG C63 vs BMW M3 vs Guila. What were the Top Gear 1/4 miles times for those cars?

Oh, oops somehow, despite Top Gear usually testing cars in the 1/4 mile, in this comparo they didn't use the 1/4 test and instead did 1/2 mile test!

I wonder why they would decide to use a 1/2 mile test instead of the more common 1/4 mile test when they compare the Tesla Model 3 to the other cars? Why would they do that?

TopGear = the last gasps and lingering limp twitches from the dead ICE legacy makers and supporting media.

Tesla Model 3 vs M3, C63 and Giulia: Top Gear series 27

Bravo...well said

 

[dfwatt]

Is there a documented example of the Taycan that was confirmed to be measured without the 1 foot rollout from the 1/4 mile time? Is that what TopGear normally does?

Let's compare to other Top Gear episodes where they test multiple cars with known 1/4 mile times. For instance recently they tested the Model 3 vs AMG C63 vs BMW M3 vs Guila. What were the Top Gear 1/4 miles times for those cars?

Oh, oops somehow, despite Top Gear usually testing cars in the 1/4 mile, in this comparo they didn't use the 1/4 test and instead did 1/2 mile test!

I wonder why they would decide to use a 1/2 mile test instead of the more common 1/4 mile test when they compare the Tesla Model 3 to the other cars? Why would they do that?

TopGear = the last gasps and lingering limp twitches from the dead ICE legacy makers and supporting media.

Tesla Model 3 vs M3, C63 and Giulia: Top Gear series 27

Yes good point. I think that's a classic instance of cherry-picking a test that gives you the outcome that you and / or your fans and paying customers want. The notion that a half mile race is any kind of real world reflection on usable performance is ridiculous. It's not even really related to much of Race Track Performance because it's rare to see a track with that long a straight away

 

[Racerx22b]

I'm gonna have a drag race where you have to carry 6 adults and tow a 5000lb trailer. The Model X will be world champion!