Porsche Taycan Vs Tesla Model S: Review, Road Test, Race, Charging

[CrayZ1]

But hundreds don't cut it...you need thousands!

Fast charging needs to be about 100 miles apart, and along every major and even minor corridor of travel. Vacation and travel needs require continous access.

There might be thousands now. I dunno. They are popping up at Walmarts like jailhouse tats.

Edit - Just looked, as of Dec 31 there were >2000 stalls at > 500 locations. HOWEVER, EA is not the only CCS supplier. In fact, the first 350kW in SoCal was an EVgo in Baker. This how you get from LA to Las Vegas.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Not sure Taycan owners are going to be the type to hang out at Walmarts Not a great place to take your trophy wife to charge up on your vacation drive to the Hamptons.

 

[CrayZ1]

Not sure Taycan owners are going to be the type to hang out at Walmarts Not a great place to take your trophy wife to charge up on your vacation drive to the Hamptons.

Who knows? I imagine there are some charging this very moment. Walmart sites are well lit, away from the front entrance (little ICE'g), but like Superchargers, they don't have canopies. EV mfr's do not know it rains. EVgo is covered.

 

[Racerx22b]

That used to be true, but not anymore. I was one of the earliest testers of the 350kW ABB chargers (1000vdc max). There were only 2? at the time in the US, both in California.

Within a year, there were hundreds of them.

Porsche claims they peak at 270kW @ 800vdc.

The other issue with these chargers is there are only 1 or 2 per location. In comparison, most Superchargers have at least 6 stalls and many have 12 or more. If you were to count actual plug in points as a comparison (not sure if that is documented anywhere) I think you'd really see the disparity.

 

[CrayZ1]

The other issue with these chargers is there are only 1 or 2 per location. ....

No EV enthusiast would argue that as of 2020 in the USA, the Tesla DCFC format is the most robust network. So there is no need to misrepresent anything.

I've used CCS to travel cross-country. I haven't seen a 1 or 2 CCS location that was over 50kW, and I've stopped at maybe 30-50 different CCS locations.

A typical EA site is about 6, but they are not paired like SC's with the exception of their CHAdeMO charger. They are true 350/175/100/50 sites that include one CHAdeMO, sometimes at 100kW other times 50kW.

And in spite of what you might read on this site and in blogs, Tesla is not competing with Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, MB, or even Hyundai. If you demand amenities like HUDs, blindspot mirrors, really nice seats, off-road ability, etc, you aren't shopping at Tesla to begin with. Teslas are a bargain, but the pricing is indicative of the trim level. There is no 'luxury' Tesla. Pickups today are better kitted.

 

[Racerx22b]

No EV enthusiast would argue that as of 2020 in the USA, the Tesla DCFC format is the most robust network. So there is no need to misrepresent anything.

I've used CCS to travel cross-country. I haven't seen a 1 or 2 CCS location that was over 50kW, and I've stopped at maybe 30-50 different CCS locations.

A typical EA site is about 6, but they are not paired like SC's with the exception of their CHAdeMO charger. They are true 350/175/100/50 sites that include one CHAdeMO, sometimes at 100kW other times 50kW.

And in spite of what you might read on this site and in blogs, Tesla is not competing with Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, MB, or even Hyundai. If you demand amenities like HUDs, blindspot mirrors, really nice seats, off-road ability, etc, you aren't shopping at Tesla to begin with. Teslas are a bargain, but the pricing is indicative of the trim level. There is no 'luxury' Tesla. Pickups today are better kitted.

I was comparing charging infrastructure, not cars. I defer to your first hand knowledge of these chargers. I have only seen a few at random gas stations here and there and there has always been one station with 1 or 2 plug options so I assumed this was the norm. I was speaking from first hand knowledge as well, I wasn't purposely misrepresenting that network as you seem to be implying.

Furthermore, my Model S and Model X have blind spot detection and very nice seats. Have you been in a Tesla? While I won't claim Tesla is inherently a "luxury brand" like MB or Bentley I will confidently state that nearly everyone I take for a ride makes a comment as to how luxurious the interior feels and how surprised they are considering they've heard about the "low quality" of Tesla builds. I would also argue that of all the brands you list (except MB) have nothing that is truly off road worthy. And even the MB off roadability is limited to the G wagon to which there is no current EV alternative.

 

[CrayZ1]

I was comparing charging infrastructure, not cars. I defer to your first hand knowledge of these chargers. I have only seen a few at random gas stations here and there and there has always been one station with 1 or 2 plug options so I assumed this was the norm. I was speaking from first hand knowledge as well, I wasn't purposely misrepresenting that network as you seem to be implying.

Furthermore, my Model S and Model X have blind spot detection and very nice seats. Have you been in a Tesla? While I won't claim Tesla is inherently a "luxury brand" like MB or Bentley I will confidently state that nearly everyone I take for a ride makes a comment as to how luxurious the interior feels and how surprised they are considering they've heard about the "low quality" of Tesla builds. I would also argue that of all the brands you list (except MB) have nothing that is truly off road worthy. And even the MB off roadability is limited to the G wagon to which there is no current EV alternative.

My 2018 Model S 'blindspot detection' was not very accurate especially around motorcycles, and I had to look forward to see it which compounded the problem. The seat was not nearly as nice as those other brands I mentioned. Can you even get A/C seats in a Tesla? You really need to try on a Jaguar EV seat for a fun comparison. Either the Windsor or the Track seats are great, but the Windsor is true 8 hr seat. Sadly unless you experience severe congestion, there isn't an 8 hr EV yet. I tested one for about 12 hrs with only the necessary 40 min charging stops and it was great. Not even Cadillac can match it.

Take the Jaguar EV off-road. It's has Land Rover DNA including AdSR. It's not just the better ground clearance, approach and departure angles, and water proofing, the powertrain logic makes it very difficult to get stuck even in sand and snow. It is the most off-road capable EV for sale today that I've run across.

 

[Racerx22b]

My 2018 Model S 'blindspot detection' was not very accurate, and I had to look forward to see it which compounded the problem. The seat was not nearly as nice as those other brands I mentioned. Can you even get A/C seats in a Tesla? You really need to try on a Jaguar EV seat for a fun comparison. Either the Windsor or the Track seats are great, but the Windsor is true 8 hr seat. Sadly unless you experience severe congestion, there isn't an 8 hr EV yet.

Take the Jaguar EV off-road. It's has Land Rover DNA including AdSR. It's not just the better ground clearance, approach and departure angles, and water proofing, the powertrain logic makes it very difficult to get stuck even in sand and snow. It is the most off-road capable EV for sale today that I've run across.

My Model X has ventilated and heated seats. It's awesome.

 

[evfeh]

Not sure Taycan owners are going to be the type to hang out at Walmarts Not a great place to take your trophy wife to charge up on your vacation drive to the Hamptons.

Your comment sounds a little elitist, an S or an X rank as high end luxury cars as well. A loaded X is around the price of a 911, and around the price of a Cayenne S. Let's not be blinded by fanboyism.

 

[CrayZ1]

My Model X has ventilated and heated seats. It's awesome.

IIRC, that's not an option today, correct? I thought the 2020 Model S I drove was loaded since it had a white interior. I do not remember it having A/C seats. Not fan air, cold air. Sends chills up your spine. And the Audi EV has massage like most luxury cars have today.
A/C seats are the norm now for anything $60k or up.

Don't get me wrong, Tesla makes the best electric vehicles for sale today for most people. But cars do have differences, which is something some people cannot fathom.

 

[Eno Deb]

But hundreds don't cut it...you need thousands!

Tesla currently has 750 sites in the US (and only a handful of them have v3 superchargers).

Fast charging needs to be about 100 miles apart, and along every major and even minor corridor of travel. Vacation and travel needs require continous access.

For geographic coverage the number of sites is important. The number of plugs required depends on the number of vehicles on the road.

 

[Eno Deb]

The other issue with these chargers is there are only 1 or 2 per location. In comparison, most Superchargers have at least 6 stalls and many have 12 or more.

EA sites have around 4.5 stalls per location on average, some have as many as 10.

If you were to count actual plug in points as a comparison (not sure if that is documented anywhere) I think you'd really see the disparity.

The DoE has fairly up to date numbers. Current count:

Tesla Superchargers: 750 sites, 7210 outlets
Electrify America CCS: 390 sites, 1746 outlets
CCS chargers total (all providers): 2086 sites, 4352 outlets

 

[bhzmark]

Superchargers vs EA

 

[CrayZ1]

Superchargers vs EA
...

Now compare Tesla DCFC, CCS, CHAdeMO today.
Not that long ago, CHAdeMO was #1, Tesla #2, CCS non-existent.

Something is not up to date on the DOE site. There are not just 5 CCS sites down, and 3 planned.

 

[bhzmark]

Now compare Tesla DCFC, CCS, CHAdeMO today.
Not that long ago, CHAdeMO was #1, Tesla #2, CCS non-existent.

Something is not up to date on the DOE site. There are not just 5 CCS sites down, and 3 planned.

Actually any comparison of just tesla superchargers is mostly meaningless because Tesla owners have (with adaopters) what all other EVs have, plus their own superchargers and destination chargers.

The map of the tesla superchargers and destination chargers is really the margin by which tesla exceeds all the others.

 

[CrayZ1]

Actually any comparison of just tesla superchargers is mostly meaningless because Tesla owners have (with adaopters) what all other EVs have, plus their own superchargers and destination chargers.

The map of the tesla superchargers and destination chargers is really the margin by which tesla exceeds all the others.

Much like Tesla's can use an adapter for CHAdeMO, J1772 cars can use Destination chargers with a TeslaTap.

But the point is the Taycan can travel coast to coast in many areas today, which was totally false in 2018.

Tesla still has the best charging network and system, but CCS has come a very long way in 2 years. Dec 2018 was when the second 350kW CCS was installed in the USA. IIRC, Nov? was the first.

 

[Eno Deb]

Actually any comparison of just tesla superchargers is mostly meaningless because Tesla owners have (with adaopters) what all other EVs have, plus their own superchargers and destination chargers.

I wish. The lack of a Tesla CCS adapter in North America is becoming a serious limitation IMO. The Chademo adapter is slow and there are far fewer Chademo outlets along highway routes than CCS outlets (because EA only installs a single Chademo plug per site). There are lots of Chademo outlets from other networks, but they are predominantly in urban areas (because they were primarily targeting low-range Nissan Leafs).

 

[bhzmark]

I wish. The lack of a Tesla CCS adapter in North America is becoming a serious limitation

How many places have ccs that don’t have a SC within 10 miles?

 

[Tummy]

Porsche claims they peak at 270kW @ 800vdc.

The current Taycans come standard with only 50 kW charging and 150 kW optional. No word on when they will increase it to 350 kW they kept touting prerelease. I doubt the current cars will be upgradable without huge expense.

 

[CrayZ1]

The current Taycans come standard with only 50 kW charging and 150 kW optional. No word on when they will increase it to 350 kW they kept touting prerelease. I doubt the current cars will be upgradable without huge expense.

I have not tested the Taycan yet, so I can only rely on their North American website. It says 270kW using a 350kW charger. 350kW chargers started to appear in late 2018. I tested a 350kW on 12-09-2018. I haven't been able to test them past 109 kW though.