Possible hidden costs

[plug]

Shhhh...no more ideas in public, please

 

[gregincal]

That is it. Elon is an idealist who I am sure is not concerned with reality too much. I believe he pays people who are employed to keep his visions within the scope of feasibility. The reality is that his wording and marketing thus far will have lead people to take the interpretation very strictly about this being a car for the masses.

I'm sorry, but this whole car for the masses thing is something that overly enthusiastic fans have come up with. All Tesla has said is that it will be an affordable mass-market car. Affordable is relative (Tesla also referred to the Model S as affordable before it came out), and mass-market only refers to the number of cars they intend to sell. I have never seen a single quote where they referred to "the masses".

 

[int32_t]

$600 for a year's worth of 4G data? How expensive 4G is in the States? First offer I found here for unlimited (unlimited data, speed capped at 150Mbps) 4G data is 264EUR for a year.

Yeah, North American phone/Internet/cable/TV is all way more expensive and slower and/or poorer service than European equivalents. You guys have got it right over there!

 

[int32_t]

... Tesla is definitely giving Google something for map data.

That would just be rude. Google is already collecting and selling all the usage data -- we have to pay twice for using Google Maps?
I hope Google isn't charging Tesla for their maps. That would be double-dipping for sure.

 

[physicsfita]

We went 12 years without updating the map in our Prius because the map CD cost $300. "My Smartphone does that"

We kept thinking about getting the update, because out-of-date maps suck, but we never pulled the trigger. Also, it didn't seem like the dealers really wanted to sell it to us. The service people would shoo you over to the parts counter, and the parts people would look at you funny when you asked about it.

The value proposition for ongoing revenue has to be crystal clear. Creating artificial barriers so that you can charge me for something I can get for almost-free from elsewhere just isn't going to open my wallet. "My smartphone and a suction cup does that just fine."

Me too -- I complained to my dealer that the map update DVD was more expensive than a Garmin (with lifetime updates!) and a suction cup. The response was a shrug. The good news is that there is an eBay seller who moves current maps out for less than $100. I've used them a couple of times.

 

[Buzby]

Then there's more upmarket Apple car software. Would someone spending $100k on a car want an Android front end? You know, the OS that is targeted by scammers and reverse engineering nerds? I'm hoping by the time the 3hits the streets, this issue will be resolved.

 

[Garlan Garner]

New Ive been saying this over and over in this forum since April.

SC'ing is not just for Long Distance travel. Even Tesla is saying this in so many words. I mean..... how many long distance travelers go grocery shopping?

Tesla partners with grocery chain on Midwest Supercharger expansion

 

[eisbock]

New Ive been saying this over and over in this forum since April.

SC'ing is not just for Long Distance travel. Even Tesla is saying this in so many words. I mean..... how many long distance travelers go grocery shopping?

Tesla partners with grocery chain on Midwest Supercharger expansion

I do when I reach my destination. Going hiking in the mountains, I need to stock up on cold cuts for my lunch.

 

[Canuck]

SC'ing is not just for Long Distance travel. Even Tesla is saying this in so many words. I mean..... how many long distance travelers go grocery shopping?

As pointed out in another thread, this has nothing to do with promoting local supercharging. Tesla just needs a parking lot. Most of these grocery stores are right by major highways, and most travellers do stop for grocery store food and other supplies! The superchargers I regularly use are in hotel parking lots, and the vast majority of users never stay in the hotel. It would be much better to get out and get something fresh to eat from a supermarket, or pick up some supplies for your trip, than be at a hotel where I am not staying. I find it odd that you don't stop at grocery stores while travelling in your vehicle. All restaurant food? No fresh fruits or vegetables? Strange. I thought I was unusual in the other thread until a lot of people posted that they also regularly stop at grocery stores while travelling. This move makes perfect sense for long distant travel and supercharger use. You are reading into it something that is clearly not there.

 

[eisbock]

I think its very likely 4G/LTE wont be free. So they should atleast give us the option to tether a phone

Personally I think the odds of them including LTE and paying for the owner's data usage every month for the life of their 35K car is slim to none. Anything else is wishful thinking, IMO.

I know these are ancient posts, but do you really think 4G connection won't be free?

Tesla cars are pretty much based off the internet. OTA updates, summon, controlling your car remotely, setting charge limits and configurations from inside your house, supercharger maps, navigation... No 4G would pretty much cripple a lot of the car's functionality. Functionality like that is a major selling point for Tesla. Imagine spending 8k for Autopilot and not being able to use it fully or get regular updates because you opted not to pay for 4G? It almost seems like a requirement and it would be pretty scummy to charge for that too.

Also, Autopilot improves through fleet learning, which means every car needs to be equipped with turned-on 4G all the time regardless. Seems kinda petty to charge a user for a feature that's always on and running. It's not like users will be using that much data anyway. I can however see disabling bandwidth-heavy internet features that aren't critical to system functionality (e.g. web browsing, Netflix, YouTube, etc.) and making the user pay for that.

Or maybe I just don't understand the 4G/LTE set-up in a Tesla.

 

[Canuck]

I know these are ancient posts, but do you really think 4G connection won't be free?

Tesla cars are pretty much based off the internet. OTA updates, summon, controlling your car remotely, setting charge limits and configurations from inside your house, supercharger maps, navigation... No 4G would pretty much cripple a lot of the car's functionality.

My Leaf connects (to 2G!) so I can use the app to warm the car, check the battery, update the maps, chargers, etc. and other functions but that's it. I can easily see Tesla doing the same with 4G for that kind of stuff only, but if you want streaming music, internet on the browser, etc. then you pay. I highly doubt it will be unlimited data for everything as it is now with my Model S. But no one knows except Tesla and they may have not even made a decision yet since they will have to negotiate their data plan with a supplier when the time comes, and that probably isn't right now.

 

[eisbock]

As pointed out in another thread, this has nothing to do with promoting local supercharging. Tesla just needs a parking lot. Most of these grocery stores are right by major highways, and most travellers do stop for grocery store food and other supplies! The superchargers I regularly use are in hotel parking lots, and the vast majority of users never stay in the hotel. It would be much better to get out and get something fresh to eat from a supermarket, or pick up some supplies for your trip, than be at a hotel where I am not staying. I find it odd that you don't stop at grocery stores while travelling in your vehicle. All restaurant food? No fresh fruits or vegetables? Strange. I thought I was unusual in the other thread until a lot of people posted that they also regularly stop at grocery stores while travelling. This move makes perfect sense for long distant travel and supercharger use. You are reading into it something that is clearly not there.

It's also quite brilliant as a location for superchargers. Most people are in a grocery store long enough to get a full charge, but tend not to dillydally (who wants to hang out in a grocery store?) so you'd rarely run into the issue of congestion via people leaving for hours at a time.

 

[Canuck]

who wants to hang out in a grocery store?

This gives me a laugh since I travelled Europe last summer with my wife and kids (by train and foot mostly) and I always wanted to go into the grocery stores in each country. I really enjoyed looking at the shelves and produce in each country and I always bought interesting stuff to eat. The kids were all like, "Oh no, dad wants to go into the grocery store again!"

 

[dsvick]

I know these are ancient posts, but do you really think 4G connection won't be free?

Tesla cars are pretty much based off the internet. OTA updates, summon, controlling your car remotely, setting charge limits and configurations from inside your house, supercharger maps, navigation... No 4G would pretty much cripple a lot of the car's functionality. Functionality like that is a major selling point for Tesla. Imagine spending 8k for Autopilot and not being able to use it fully or get regular updates because you opted not to pay for 4G? It almost seems like a requirement and it would be pretty scummy to charge for that too.

Also, Autopilot improves through fleet learning, which means every car needs to be equipped with turned-on 4G all the time regardless. Seems kinda petty to charge a user for a feature that's always on and running. It's not like users will be using that much data anyway. I can however see disabling bandwidth-heavy internet features that aren't critical to system functionality (e.g. web browsing, Netflix, YouTube, etc.) and making the user pay for that.

Or maybe I just don't understand the 4G/LTE set-up in a Tesla.

There is no reason Tesla can't separate data use between what is required for the car to operate and what would be considered optional things like music, web searches, and browsing.

 

[mhan00]

It's also quite brilliant as a location for superchargers. Most people are in a grocery store long enough to get a full charge, but tend not to dillydally (who wants to hang out in a grocery store?) so you'd rarely run into the issue of congestion via people leaving for hours at a time.

And then you see people who have their wives or husbands pick them up in their other car so they can go home while leaving their cars at the charging station . . .

 

[mhan00]

It does sound like the Model 3 will have some SC credits included like the Model S and X, according to the electrek, based on some comments by Elon during the Tesla/Solar City vote. We still don't know if the credits will be the same or less than what the S and X will receive.

 

[eisbock]

And then you see people who have their wives or husbands pick them up in their other car so they can go home while leaving their cars at the charging station . . .

Do you really think this will be an issue? Seems like a lot of work and very inconvenient for everybody involved.

 

[mhan00]

Never underestimate people's desire to save a buck. I personally saw behavior exactly like that at my local Costco's level two chargers until they started locking them up at night. It probably won't be an issue now that SCing only provides the first 400kwh for free, but if unlimited makes a return you will absolutely see people doing that, unless Tesla enacts penalities for staying longer than the time it takes to charge.

 

[Jayc]

Have to say this thread is starting to worry me a bit. I like almost everything about Tesla as a company but the Model S service charges are too expensive - especially when Tesla makes it a point to highlight the simplicity of EVs over ICE. Discontinuing pure white is another move in the wrong direction. It's starting to look like the accountants have started to take all the decisions at Tesla.

 

[Trips]

I know these are ancient posts, but do you really think 4G connection won't be free?

Back in January 2014 Tesla and AT@T agreed to a multi-year deal. The said that owners would have free internet services including infotainment for four years.

I think basic features will be free and you will have to buy the at@t auto plan if you want the infotainment. I still have a Verizon unlimited plan so Bluetooth is fine for my music.