Possible hidden costs

[Canuck]

Have to say this thread is starting to worry me a bit.

I hear you. Reading threads here, it's a wonder that anyone would buy a Tesla. But take it from me (an owner since 2014) buying a Tesla was one the best things I have purchased in my life, I look forward to driving my car every day, and I've had very few problems. And this is coming from someone who missed out on AP but who doesn't regret his purchase one bit!

 

[Trips]

AT&T Costs
All current subscribes can add a line and share their data for $10/month.

GM
- 1GB $10
- 4GB $20
- Unlimited $40 (slowed at 22GB)

Jaguar, Audi, Land Rover, Porsche
- 1GB $10
- Unlimited $40 (slowed at 22GB)

Volvo
- 6 month free trial 3GB/month cap
- Coming soon, customers will be able to select from a variety of vehicle data plans to keep the unique suite of features accessible after the trial period expires.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Tesla wants your sweet, sweet data.

They want your Autopilot 2.0 inputs. They want your status when you pull into a Supercharger. They want to be able to monitor their products in real time in the wild.

I find it very hard to believe they're going to shut off that data pipe anytime soon.

As much as you need it for Spotify and Nav, they need it more for AP 2.0 validation.

 

[mcghee33]

Tesla wants your sweet, sweet data.

They want your Autopilot 2.0 inputs. They want your status when you pull into a Supercharger. They want to be able to monitor their products in real time in the wild.

I find it very hard to believe they're going to shut off that data pipe anytime soon.

As much as you need it for Spotify and Nav, they need it more for AP 2.0 validation.

I agree with you Model Nerd to a degree. But what I believe will happen is that every car will have the LTE antenna built in and Tesla will negotiate with AT&T (current provider in North America) and other wireless carriers around the world to allow them to send software updates and send AP 2.0 validation over the network. Or maybe they only send software updates when the car is at home on wifi. They will then charge the similar fees that Trips posted above where the driver will have to pay to have the luxury internet features built into the car.

This is definitely a feature I expect I will have to pay additional for with the 3 unlike the Model S or X where it can be included because of the higher cost.

We also know what the Supercharger access will look like for a model 3, that will also cut down on the cost of the car. People here really need to remember that a lot of the cost of the S and X was building the infrastructure necessary to build these cars in the first place and to build the supercharges. Elon has always made it clear that current S and X owners are paying a premium to allow them to build out their infrastructure to begin mass producing cars. Specifically the model 3. That is why they will get their cars before me, because they already paid for it by early adopting.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I agree with you Model Nerd to a degree. But what I believe will happen is that every car will have the LTE antenna built in and Tesla will negotiate with AT&T (current provider in North America) and other wireless carriers around the world to allow them to send software updates and send AP 2.0 validation over the network. Or maybe they only send software updates when the car is at home on wifi. They will then charge the similar fees that Trips posted above where the driver will have to pay to have the luxury internet features built into the car.

This is definitely a feature I expect I will have to pay additional for with the 3 unlike the Model S or X where it can be included because of the higher cost.

We also know what the Supercharger access will look like for a model 3, that will also cut down on the cost of the car. People here really need to remember that a lot of the cost of the S and X was building the infrastructure necessary to build these cars in the first place and to build the supercharges. Elon has always made it clear that current S and X owners are paying a premium to allow them to build out their infrastructure to begin mass producing cars. Specifically the model 3. That is why they will get their cars before me, because they already paid for it by early adopting.

Why would Tesla negotiate with AT&T and/or other vendors? They already have a contract with AT&T?

Why are we creating these rumors?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I agree with you Model Nerd to a degree. But what I believe will happen is that every car will have the LTE antenna built in and Tesla will negotiate with AT&T (current provider in North America) and other wireless carriers around the world to allow them to send software updates and send AP 2.0 validation over the network. Or maybe they only send software updates when the car is at home on wifi. They will then charge the similar fees that Trips posted above where the driver will have to pay to have the luxury internet features built into the car.

This is definitely a feature I expect I will have to pay additional for with the 3 unlike the Model S or X where it can be included because of the higher cost.

We also know what the Supercharger access will look like for a model 3, that will also cut down on the cost of the car. People here really need to remember that a lot of the cost of the S and X was building the infrastructure necessary to build these cars in the first place and to build the supercharges. Elon has always made it clear that current S and X owners are paying a premium to allow them to build out their infrastructure to begin mass producing cars. Specifically the model 3. That is why they will get their cars before me, because they already paid for it by early adopting.

Current owners, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tesla doesn't push OTAs over the AT+T network. I believe you have to sign into your home wifi to pull software updates.



I think we've all learned by now (ok, maybe not all of us) to not speculate until we hear from Tesla or Elon what they're going to do. And even then, it's subject to change anyway.

 

[ilg]

Current owners, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tesla doesn't push OTAs over the AT+T network. I believe you have to sign into your home wifi to pull software updates.

Okay, you're wrong. They push updates over AT&T or Wi-Fi. Just depends on what you're hooked to when your number comes up.

At one time there was a statement made that they would start to prioritize updates to cars on Wi-Fi, but I don't think that ever materialized. The update distribution seems to be just as random as ever.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Okay, you're wrong. They push updates over AT&T or Wi-Fi. Just depends on what you're hooked to when your number comes up.

At one time there was a statement made that they would start to prioritize updates to cars on Wi-Fi, but I don't think that ever materialized. The update distribution seems to be just as random as ever.

Thanks for keeping me straight. I had heard that they wanted to prioritize wifi, but just assumed they went through with it.

That's what I get, huh?

 

[MiamiNole]

It's also quite brilliant as a location for superchargers. Most people are in a grocery store long enough to get a full charge, but tend not to dillydally (who wants to hang out in a grocery store?) so you'd rarely run into the issue of congestion via people leaving for hours at a time.

Depends on the grocery store... Wegman's in the mid-Atlantic and NE is quite awesome! I'd sleep there if I could. I (partly) jest though, so point taken!

 

[MiamiNole]

And then you see people who have their wives or husbands pick them up in their other car so they can go home while leaving their cars at the charging station . . .

What's different between doing this at a supercharger at a grocery store and any other supercharger? We're still talking about superchargers being placed along grocery stores alongside highway routes for long distance travel, right? Not being put at every local neighborhood Publix or Kroger (or Ralphs or Vons since you're in Cali).

 

[SageBrush]

- Am I going to love the car so much (as others have said) that I"m going to wash it way more often than I wash my car now? At $10 per week that's over $500 per year

That is easily solved. Bump the car into a couple of walls right off the bat

 

[SageBrush]

No one on these forums is arguing that Telsa isn't a great car, or that they aren't excited to get it. I'm just saying there are going to be more "hidden" outlays of cash for this car that I think get glossed over.

They are not being 'glossed over,' they are optional and owner variable. You may as well include any tendency to run over curbs.

A 40k car is more expensive than a 7k car, Tesla or not

 

[david_42]

That is easily solved. Bump the car into a couple of walls right off the bat

Not worried about washing one, 3 months out of the year it's dry and only slightly dusty, the other nine, it's raining almost every day.

 

[racer26]

Am I the only one who's considered that SpaceX is launching a satellite constellation to provide internet access around the world?

Why continue paying AT&T or whoever to provide Tesla cars with LTE coverage when the money can stay in Musk Industries and be used to further accelerate the goals of sustainability?

As a bonus, you can eliminate coverage gaps, and ultimately provide a better product. People don't need a blazing fast low-latency internet connection in their car, so the long ping times of a satellite connection are an acceptable compromise.

 

[Topher]

Map updates are required for auto-pilot. This is a liability issue for Tesla, they won't let you not take updates.
Cell phone coverage is required for Tesla to upload AI training data, that data is worth for more to them than a little bandwidth (when they are buying MASSIVE amounts of it). It will go away when Tesla deploys those 4,000 satellites.
The just got away from fixed price for unlimited charging, why on Earth would they go back to that broken business model?

Thank you kindly.

 

[eisbock]

That is easily solved. Bump the car into a couple of walls right off the bat

No need. I'm sure my car will be dinged in a parking lot the first week I own it. Such is life.

 

[mcghee33]

Am I the only one who's considered that SpaceX is launching a satellite constellation to provide internet access around the world?

Why continue paying AT&T or whoever to provide Tesla cars with LTE coverage when the money can stay in Musk Industries and be used to further accelerate the goals of sustainability?

As a bonus, you can eliminate coverage gaps, and ultimately provide a better product. People don't need a blazing fast low-latency internet connection in their car, so the long ping times of a satellite connection are an acceptable compromise.

Because that is not how wireless networks work. You can't beam down an internet signal just from a satellite. You would still need a ground infrastructure to beam the signal to the satellite and then beam the internet signal back down. This is NOT a cost effective way to distribute internet. Ask anyone who has to pay for one of the few internet satellite providers like Hughes.
Makes way more sense for Tesla to continue their carrier agreements like AT&T here in the US. I am not sure who they use in other parts of the world but I assume they have agreements in Europe, Asia and Australia.

 

[mcghee33]

Why would Tesla negotiate with AT&T and/or other vendors? They already have a contract with AT&T?

Why are we creating these rumors?

Sorry you believe that I am spreading rumors. Maybe I wasn't clear in my original statement. The agreement with AT&T probably means that Tesla either pays them a fee for every car sold OR they pay a rate to AT&T up to X amount of cars sold and then ATT can renegotiate the rates with Tesla.
Either way I am ASSUMING that is will not be FREE for Tesla to just add all of these M3s to AT&Ts network. Either Tesla will need to eat the cost or we the consumer will end up paying for it.
What I was trying to state above is that ONE of the ways Tesla is likely to assist in reaching their low price point is to charge the buyer for data for use of streaming radio and things of the sort.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Because that is not how wireless networks work. You can't beam down an internet signal just from a satellite. You would still need a ground infrastructure to beam the signal to the satellite and then beam the internet signal back down. This is NOT a cost effective way to distribute internet. Ask anyone who has to pay for one of the few internet satellite providers like Hughes.
Makes way more sense for Tesla to continue their carrier agreements like AT&T here in the US. I am not sure who they use in other parts of the world but I assume they have agreements in Europe, Asia and Australia.

Having been an Info Sys Tech on Navy ships, that move, I can tell you that keeping locked onto a satellite signal for fast and reliable internet speed is not as easy as it sounds.

Storms, anything that would impair the antenna's "view" of the southern horizon, vibration on occasion, the list goes on.

Relying on a steady internet signal from space, in your car, while driving in between buildings and trees and in bad weather just would not work.

 

[JeffK]

Although, I can imagine a world where they continue uploading data via wifi and mobile networks but use satellite for downloading updates. This would be trivial and is how satellite TV and Radio software updates come in. There's no need to maintain constant connection and if you are getting gigabit rates then you'd only require short bursts for new software updates, etc.

It all depends on how much the current data is costing them whether or not it's cost effective to implement a satellite solution (would need antennas on every car).