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Possible new feature: Autopilot responding to turn signals?

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Seems plausible. MobilEye has had this feature for a long time by the way, already a decade or so ago that enabled Audi to get the TACC that detected cars signalling lane changes and didn’t slow down for them.

Are you talking about a feature that is in production and used by customers today, or a prototype that has never been deployed commercially? Is there any non-Tesla production vehicle on the road today, driven by regular customers, that currently detects turn signals and responds by slowing down? There is sometimes conflation on this forum between technology in development and technology in production.

Carnegie Mellon and Stanford had autonomous urban driving in development in 2007 but it hasn’t quite hit production yet.

 
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Are you talking about a feature that is in production and used by customers today, or a prototype that has never been deployed commercially? Is there any non-Tesla vehicle on the road today that detects turn signals and responds by slowing down? There is sometimes conflation on this forum between technology in development and technology in production.

Carnegie Mellon and Stanford had autonomous urban driving in 2007 but it hasn’t quite hit production yet.


Well, the Audi TACC does not slow down due to turn signals — it actually does the opposite.

It detects the car in front of you is turning away with blinkers on (yes), so it will not slow down for it, as the car leaving lane is slowing down. Instead it anticipates the car is leaving and keeps driving at a normal pace with the expectation that the lane will be cleared.

A very normal issue with most TACC systems (including Tesla) is that when the car in front of you is slowing down for a lane change or exit, your TACC slows down with it. The Audi system remedies this by looking at the driving scenario (maps included!) and deciding the car is going away and not worth slowing down for.

Audi deployed this MobilEye (EyeQ2) system in 2010, yes in consumer cars starting with the A8, then A6 and downwards.
 
Mind you, that was just me describing the Audi system from 2010.

The new system in the latest cars is actually much smarter still in various scenarios, urban included. The detection is greatly superior to anything Tesla does (there really is quite a long list of traffic assists, including intersection scenarios etc.), but of course Audi does not have Tesla’s aggressive self-driving features.

But a car with blinkers or traffic signs or lights those MobilEye’s chips have been able to discern for a long time...
 
Audi deployed this MobilEye (EyeQ2) system in 2010, yes in consumer cars starting with the A8, then A6 and downwards.

Hard to find any mention of production cars detecting and responding to turn signals this early on. Can you provide a source?

The detection is greatly superior to anything Tesla does

What’s Mobileye’s detection error rate, and what’s Tesla’s?
 
What can I say, it is common and public knowledge. Car manual stuff. This is not news or controversial.

This is news to me.

As you can see below: MobilEye clearly saw the armored truck signaling to get in front and the system clearly alarmed "beep beep beep" then slammed right into the truck:


Very good detection but lousy accident avoidance for a scenario of front adjacent vehicle signaling to merge in ahead of your car.
 
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@Tam

It is up to the OEMs to make use of the chips and their features. For example EyeQ3 did not have a cross-traffic detection feature (but instead relied on manufacturers to either limit scenario or provide redundant sensors) hence Joshua Brown happened...

But already EyeQ2 from 2010 had for example traffic light and traffic sign detection, first of which we are now seeing Tesla start deploying (and latter AP2+ does not have yet at all). OEMs have not been very aggressive in making use of all these MobilEye features but many of them have been made use of.

As for the Audi system, it is news only if you are new to this scene or if your point of view is limited. ADAS from 2000-2010 is really basic stuff, it was not hard to follow given how few there were. The latter half of that decade owed all its ADAS progress to MobilEye basically.

Today keeping up is already a bit harder... so many...
 
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What can I say, it is common and public knowledge. Car manual stuff. This is not news or controversial.

Pre-AlexNet I’m skeptical how accurately a system could classify turn signals. The owner’s manual for the 2012 Audi A8 doesn’t mention anything about being able to detect turn signals.

Instead, it says on page 89 that it will match a lead vehicle’s speed until that vehicle is clear:

“When approaching a moving vehicle detected up ahead, the adaptive cruise control system automatically slows down to match that vehicle's speed and then maintains the distance that the driver previously stored. As soon as the system does not detect a vehicle up ahead, adaptive cruise control accelerates back up to the stored speed.”
Maybe the behaviour you’re describing — the Audi A8 maintaining its speed when the lead vehicle signals and slows down — is just the Audi A8 maintaining its speed.
 
Pre-AlexNet I’m skeptical how accurately a system could classify turn signals. The owner’s manual for the 2012 Audi A8 doesn’t mention anything about being able to detect turn signals.

Instead, it says on page 89 that it will match a lead vehicle’s speed until that vehicle is clear:

“When approaching a moving vehicle detected up ahead, the adaptive cruise control system automatically slows down to match that vehicle's speed and then maintains the distance that the driver previously stored. As soon as the system does not detect a vehicle up ahead, adaptive cruise control accelerates back up to the stored speed.”
Maybe the behaviour you’re describing — the Audi A8 maintaining its speed when the lead vehicle signals and slows down — is just the Audi A8 maintaining its speed.

Sigh.

Some of us actually owned and drove these cars.
 
Here is a hint to interpreting Volkswagen materials. Go to the back cover and look at the market it was written for.

If it is not Germany (Deutschland), be suspicious it might not be representative.

If it is for North America (Nordamerika), ignore it as completely pointless. It is not representative of their state of the art at all.

We don’t judge Teslas by the features they make available in France, either.
 
It has happened to me at least 3 times.

First time car signals and normally I would keep going because my lane was moving at least 10 mph faster and the car that wanted to merge was only 1 or 2 car lengths ahead and AP hits the brakes hard to let the car over.

At least 2 other times cars were merging from a stopped lane just trying to get in a lane thats moving, you know the type that dart all over in heavy traffic to get a couple cars ahead only to be passed by you as you stay in the same no# 2 lane, those times AP stops the car and lets them in.

Only when someone had the blinker on, I could tell after it happened more than once that it was seeing the blinker, I thought it was just being to cautious and now I know it was being to damn courteous!
 
Here is a hint to interpreting Volkswagen materials. Go to the back cover and look at the market it was written for.

If it is not Germany (Deutschland), be suspicious it might not be representative.

If it is for North America (Nordamerika), ignore it as completely pointless. It is not representative of their state of the art at all.

So turn signal detection only works/worked in Germany and you can only find mention of it in German owner manuals? How is it common knowledge then? Maybe it is to German drivers, but most TMC members are from outside Germany.

Mobileye’s English-language documentation doesn’t make it easy to find any reference to turn signal detection — now or in the past. I went on archive.org and couldn’t find a reference to it on Mobileye’s old website either.

Forget about 2010 — does turn signal detection exist in any 2019 models with EyeQ3 or EyeQ4? I can't find any reference to it.
 
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So turn signal detection only works/worked in Germany and you can only find mention of it in German owner manuals? How is it common knowledge then? Maybe it is to German drivers, but most TMC members are from outside Germany.

Mobileye’s English-language documentation doesn’t make it easy to find any reference to turn signal detection — now or in the past. I went on archive.org and couldn’t find a reference to it on Mobileye’s old website either.

One of the problems with your discussion method is that for you everything lives on the internet and is theoretical. I know what kind of driver’s aids I have driven, owned and how the technology has evolved from first-hand experience. How much time one wants to spend looking up features from a car owned a decade ago when the internet itself was a bit different place is another question... I wasn’t quoting a source, I was telling from experience.

Alas, the knowledge on this forum on these points is terribly limited, at times. Probably because not many people here have personal experience with European premium cars with their high-end features.

I know what I’ve driven. And no it was not available just in Germany, but my general point is North American manuals are not representative because U.S. has its unique regulations. For example that manual you quoted does not have the traffic-sign detection a model-year 2011 car in Europe did have. Use at least EU manuals.

Anyway, here is the feature described — on an American site :) — back in November 2009 in the official Audi press release for the new car:
On the highway, if the car ahead puts on its right turn signal and slows down because its driver wants to exit, the ACC stop & go function recognizes this fact thanks to the camera image and because it can read the exit from the route data supplied by the navigation system. A conventional system would now brake analogously to the car ahead; in many cases the A8 continues on almost without change.

In Detail: The New Audi A8

The video camera on the 2010 Audi A8 is powered by MobilEye EyeQ2 and yes MobilEye has indicator detection in their later chips as well. This EyeQ2 did the traffic-sign detection as well. These chips already, in 2010, did a wide range of obstacle detection also — something Tesla does not do even today — because they were also powering things like adaptive suspension (automatic preparation for a pothole, that sort of thing). EyeQ2 also recognized traffic lights.

The Audi A8 was one of the launch cars for EyeQ2 in 2010, just like Model S AP1 was one of the launch cars for EyeQ3 four years later.

MobilEye was (is?) years ahead of everyone else. Too bad the most aggressive implementation partner (Tesla AP1) and MobilEye did not see eye to eye on how to make use of those features. Other OEMs have mainly used the features for safety or comfort features, not so much for driver’s aids until recently, so average consumer visibility into MobilEye’s advanced features is somewhat limited. But the info and history certainly is out there for those following the scene.

@Tam
 
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I hate to sound like @Bladerskb but the thing people really have to understand is MobilEye has solved vision already. Not just solved like in Elon Musk speech but like in reality, in chips that have been in consumer cars for a decade, in a way that generates highly reliable description of the surrounding world from camera data with all the bits and pieces out there that are needed for autonomous driving without a driver.

EyeQ2 (2010) already did in many ways more than Tesla does today (lane markings, free space, traffic signs, hazardous obstacles, traffic lights, turn indicators, radarless TACC etc), EyeQ3 (2014) did more still (but lacks cross-traffic for urban) and EyeQ4 (2018) is on the level the true autonomy is possible (has cross-traffic).

Whereas Tesla recognizes a very limited set of features still and their reliability is highly variable, MobilEye paints a very accurate scene to very high labelled detail of everything, really. How to turn that data into a self-driving car is of course the current challenge (EyeQ4 already has REM mapping and driving policy too though) but really it should be appreciated how much of this MobilEye has already done and for how long on the vision end.

Had Tesla and MobilEye stuck together, these kinds of features could have been out two years ago or earlier. Indeed I am pretty sure Elon Musk’s confidence in self-driving in 2015-early 2016 was driven by MobilEye’s progress and their collaboration potential...

It is too bad that two-camera AP1 never came out that Model X had the pieces for. There they could have really made use of MobilEye forward-detection for all kinds of things with a wide second camera.

For all you fans of camera-only driving, MobilEye should be your god. :)
 
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One of the problems with your discussion method is that for you everything lives on the internet

I don't think there's any problem with asking for evidence to support claims. Not everyone has the same information, and sourcing claims puts everyone on the same page.

It isn't fair or reasonable to expect people to automatically accept as fact anything they read on a forum. That's obviously not realistic. You don't just automatically believe everything you read here, right? Clearly not. in fact, rather than just accepting what people say, you often challenge the claims people make. Is that a problem with your discussion method? Should you just take things on trust? No, of course not.

I appreciate you finding the source and sharing it with us. That's helpful. I don't appreciate you taking me asking for a source as an opportunity to criticize me. That's not okay. That's not the standard you hold yourself to, and it's not a standard anyone should be held to. This is a boundary violation.

Some good advice from Lex Fridman for those of us who are active on Twitter, Reddit, and forums:

“If you feel the urge to post a negative comment on the internet, I suggest you also exercise regularly, go into nature, fall in love, pursue your passion, and take on difficult tasks that humble you. Perhaps then the urge for negativity will decrease & you will be happier for it.”
I would add:
  • go to therapy
  • listen to Brené Brown
  • pet a dog
  • practice self-compassion
  • try meditation, prayer, kirtan, ritual, or just square breathing
  • spend more time on things you find fun, funny, moving, hopeful, inspiring, or fascinating
The itch we scratch with litigating grudges against strangers on the Internet will never be relieved with that behaviour. It's just more salt water for our thirst. There is no cathartic end game here.

The good news is there are healthy alternatives that are effective.