Post delivery FSD purchase for Model 3 not available online

[vigleik]

You must have SR+ which is right on the boundary of LCT with FSD license. In Vic the FSD license would have added $600 Luxury Car Tax. ACT Probably cos you have savings elsewhere you stayed below it.

No I'm more interested in the principle of the thing - for cars that are above the LCT threshold why on earth are we having to pay Luxury Car Tax (with GST and Stamp duty ON TOP) so ~40% tax on a Software License. It's absurd. The craziest thing being the LCT only applies to the software license if bought at same time as car - and perhaps if you buy it just after getting the car...

If you wait, it seems it doesn't apply. And 40% of $8.5k is real money.

The question is - how much later do you have to wait? Do you have to wait 2 years, or can you get it sooner?

Indeed I managed to get in just below the LCT threshold with my sr+. If I were to order the same car now, after the price increase on the car and on FSD, I’d have to pay LCT.

I just wanted to correct the claim @djayz made that the price increase on FSD didn’t happen, and explain why it did make sense for me to order FSD with the car rather than wait.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Australian government’s lack of support for electric cars is appalling.

 

[PJF000]

No this is rubbish. The rules around LCT only apply to those who sell cars in the course of business.

Direct quote from the ATO:

“When you sell a luxury car in Australia it's subject to LCT if you sell it in the course of your business and you're registered or required to be registered for GST.”

LCT is never paid by the consumer. If there was any due, Tesla would be liable.

Further to this, your car will depreciate significantly anyways from the day you drive it off the lot. Even if any of this applied you would have nothing to pay.

Hmmm. I read that if you have an ABN and are registered or are required to be registeted for GST and you buy a luxury car then sell it within 2 years of the age of the car for more than than you paid, then there becomes a liability for you to pay lct less any lct previously paid. If you don't have an ABN and are registered, then no lct is payable.
There is no lct payable on a luxury car older than 2 years, new or used.

The ambiguous part is when the End of Supply period has actually ended. No time or basis is specified.
If Tesla sell options after the original purchase contract has been completed to and for a car that had or would have had lct due, then it is their problem to pay the lct if it deemed owing. I would be surprised if Tesla have not already worked out what there liability would be. In fact, I always thought that if you buy options that were available at the time of purchase after you purchase, then the price is generally higher. It could be higher as there may be an lct component added.

 

[meowsers]

Yes, if you are a business and sell the vehicle for more you would need to pay LCT.

Let Tesla worry about Tesla's LCT and just buy FSD if you want it.

You will never sell this car for more than you bought it, unless you sell it maybe to someone who wants one ASAP within the next few months. FSD is not an "investment" and I would assess the pros vs. cons as it stands today and not what it could be.

I would not worry about the LCT being an issue. Teslas depreciate horrifically, although I am hopeful with the model 3 this will stabilise somewhat.

 

[meowsers]

For those interested here is the exact section:

Additional supplies and modifications for cars 2.55 Subsection 5-20(3) provides that, in certain circumstances, the luxury car tax value of a car includes the price of all supplies and modifications in relation to that car. This feature is designed to prevent additional supplies and/or modifications being made to a car after the point of sale and excluded from luxury car tax.

2.56 Subsection 5-20(3) will apply to you if you supply a luxury car and you, or your associate, provide additional supplies and/or modifications to that car, or that are paid for by the recipient, that are:

* made before the end supply of the car; or

* made under an arrangement made with you or your associate, at or before the time of the end supply of the car.

2.57 For example, if a person buys a car from a car dealer who arranges for modifications and/or additional supplies to be made or added to that car, then the luxury car tax value of the car must include the price of those modifications and/or additional supplies. This is the case regardless of whether the modifications or additional supplies are made or added to the car, before or after the time of sale.


So basically if you don't "arrange" this at or before supply (delivery) Tesla would be in the clear. I imagine they have very good lawyers that thought this one through.

 

[spidey]

Direct quote from the ATO:

“When you sell a luxury car in Australia it's subject to LCT if you sell it in the course of your business and you're registered or required to be registered for GST.”

LCT is never paid by the consumer. If there was any due, Tesla would be liable.

Yes Tesla is liable not the consumer but Tesla would obviously charge the consumer for that LCT liability.

So if AFTER receiving my car, I go back to Tesla and add a modification (one which COULD have been fitted pre-purchase, such as FSD license, or I don't know - tow bar, or fancier wheels - substantially changing the value of the car - are Tesla liable for LCT on that? obviously if they are they will on-charge that to me.

I'll give you a more general example. Lets say I'm buying a Toyota Landcruiser 200 series. LCT definitely applies (I'm an individual retail purchaser).

I really like the Toyota Bullbar and Winch kit, and a heap of other mods that Toyota offer - lets say $10k worth of mods. I 'could' order those with the car, therefore the value of those would go into the purchase price of the car, thus LCT is applied to them, and it also increases the stamp duty payable.

OR in theory I could buy the car without them. Take delivery, then go back 3 days later and pay that same Toyota dealer to make the modifications. Are Toyota going to have to charge the LCT and Stamp Duty I otherwise would have had to pay if I'd had them done up front?

That's the core question here.

 

[PJF000]

View attachment 458649

View attachment 458650


You will never sell this car for more than you bought it, unless you sell it maybe to someone who wants one ASAP within the next few months. FSD is not an "investment" and I would assess the pros vs. cons as it stands today and not what it could be.

I would not worry about the LCT being an issue. Teslas depreciate horrifically, although I am hopeful with the model 3 this will stabilise somewhat.

You are probably right. I was just going off the Act. Agree it would be unlikely to get more for a newish car on a resale.

I couldn't see in the Act (as above link) where you need to be registered for LCT. Probably in another Act. I read it as even if you (defined as an individual) or an entity (not necessarily a business that primarily sells luxury cars) have an ABN and registered for GST, and a luxury car is bought and sold in the course of that business, then there is a liability for lct if it deemed owing. I guess if you do a once off import and sale you have to register for lct at the time then remit it.

 

[meowsers]

OR in theory I could buy the car without them. Take delivery, then go back 3 days later and pay that same Toyota dealer to make the modifications. Are Toyota going to have to charge the LCT and Stamp Duty I otherwise would have had to pay if I'd had them done up front?

No they won't, and I've done this exact thing.

 

[spidey]

So basically if you don't "arrange" this at or before supply (delivery) Tesla would be in the clear. I imagine they have very good lawyers that thought this one through.

Right so what constitutes an 'arrangement'. If you talk to them about it beforehand and they say 'you know what, save some tax, buy it later'. they would presumably get in trouble.

If you ask them about it before purchase, and decide to wait, does that constitute an arrangement.

I find the whole thing very 'fluffy'.

 

[spidey]

No they won't, and I've done this exact thing.

YAY THANKYOU... That's the answer I was looking for - somebody who's actually done it. Thanks mate.

 

[PJF000]

For those interested here is the exact section:

So basically if you don't "arrange" this at or before supply (delivery) Tesla would be in the clear. I imagine they have very good lawyers that thought this one through.

The critical point is the definition of "supply". It is not defined as delivery.

supply has the meaning given by section 9‑10 of the *GST Act. (from the link above)
Section 9-10 is lengthy but very broad and is silent on timing.
It could be argued that supply of a component within 2 years of age of the vehicle by the same supplier of the vehicle, and that component was available at the time of original purpose, then Additional supplies and modifications for cars 2.55 Subsection 5-20(3) applies and lct is payable (by the supplier). Modifications by other suppliers would not count.

So basically if you don't "arrange" this at or before supply (delivery) Tesla would be in the clear.

I originally thought that but if "actions to avoid" are deemed by the ATO then you are guilty until you can prove innocent.

Anyway, logically, the proof will be in the pudding by those that buy mods after the purchase and delivery, have to pay a higher amount than if bought in the original sale. The lct is payable by Tesla, regardless.

 

[ittah]

YAY THANKYOU... That's the answer I was looking for - somebody who's actually done it. Thanks mate.

Did this myself, $8500 charged. FSD activated without software update, and Summons now available in my Tesla App. Called up Tesla they took credit card details and activated after a couple of days.

 

[meowsers]

Exactly, I wouldn’t worry about this too much.
Lots of people buy accessories from dealers after purchase (think $8500 BMW sport exhausts) and don’t pay LCT. Storm in a teacup if you ask me.

 

[spidey]

Exactly, I wouldn’t worry about this too much.
Lots of people buy accessories from dealers after purchase (think $8500 BMW sport exhausts) and don’t pay LCT. Storm in a teacup if you ask me.

At work I'm sometimes called 'The Can Opener' - because I keep opening cans of worms. I'm actually a network and storage engineer with IBM so I look after really big customers. It's kinda my job to think of every possible bad scenario and mitigate them. It's in my nature.

Seems I'm doing the same on these forums :-/

 

[spidey]

Did this myself, $8500 charged. FSD activated without software update, and Summons now available in my Tesla App. Called up Tesla they took credit card details and activated after a couple of days.

Thanks ITTAH

 

[meowsers]

Seems I'm doing the same on these forums :-/

Haha, no problem. Even if you did open this particular can of worms, it wouldn't be yours to deal with.

 

[Grenadine]

Did this myself, $8500 charged. FSD activated without software update, and Summons now available in my Tesla App. Called up Tesla they took credit card details and activated after a couple of days.

Was summons the only thing that changed?

 

[ittah]

Was summons the only thing that changed?

Summons and Automatic lane change (guided by selection of indicator whilst on Autopilot).

 

[m4rtin]

Did this myself, $8500 charged. FSD activated without software update, and Summons now available in my Tesla App. Called up Tesla they took credit card details and activated after a couple of days.

Which number did you call and how many hours did you have to wait getting through?

 

[ittah]

Which number did you call and how many hours did you have to wait getting through?

Customer Support - ‭1800 646 952‬ Option 2 . Got through within a couple of minutes (10am). Said I wanted to activate FSD on my model 3. They took my credit card details and said they will relay request. Activated 2 days later - no email or phone confirmation - Account Manage tab updated car details to Full Self Driving (Autopilot removed).

 

[Grenadine]

Thanks Ittah!