TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Post Pictures of HPWC Installations (Residential and Commercial)

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Solarguy, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Solarguy

    Solarguy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    119
    Location:
    Indialantic, Florida
    As a future owner of a Model X and very likely a Model E, I think it would be helpful to me and others to see pictures of current HPWC installations to help in planning, specifying and documenting to obtain quotes. In my case I'm considering 2 HPWC's with full 100amp. feeds from 2 separate main breaker panels to be able to charge both cars simultaneously if need be. I know it's overkill but so was the 400amp. service and 15.25Kw PV system I put in two years ago and now glad I did.
    The only commercial installation I have seen is in the parking garage for the Tesla store in Newport Beach CA where my wife and I test drove a Model S. That installation required a 100amp. disconnect switch near the HPWC I think because it is a commercial location. The same may be true for other business locations and condo and apartment complexes but I am not sure.
    Any pictures you could share of residential or commercial installations would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,590
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
  3. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,561
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    San Diego Service Center:

    IMG_1652.JPG IMG_1650.JPG IMG_1649.JPG
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,244
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    I'm not an expert, but I believe an EVSE that is more than 60 amps or more than 150V above ground must have a disconnect near the unit whether commercial or residential. Even though the HPWC uses 208VAC or 240VAC it's only 120VAC above ground. The high current is what triggers the disconnect requirement.
     
  5. dailydriver

    dailydriver Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Naperville IL, USA
  6. Joe H.

    Joe H. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    VA
  7. Obsoletion

    Obsoletion Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Alta Loma, CA (Southern California)
    100 Amp, 240 Volt Supply using #2 AWG Copper THHN

    IMG_1200.JPG IMG_1202.JPG IMG_1208.JPG IMG_1209.JPG

    - - - Updated - - -

    240 Volt, 100 Amp - #2 AWG Copper THHN

    IMG_1200.JPG
    IMG_1202.JPG
    IMG_1208.JPG
    IMG_1209.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,062
    Location:
    Colorado
    #2 is the max rating of those lugs, and as you can see, is REALLY tight. :eek:

    I know that Tesla really likes the sexy industrial design look, but using lugs one size larger would have saved a lot of install pain. You or your electrician should be prepared for a wrestling match with #2. I watched my electrician do the wrestling an my primary residence, and I did the wrestling at my second home.

    Other choices with reduced pain are to use #3 (harder to find, and sometimes more expensive) or use #4 and a 90A breaker. A 90A breaker still gives you 72A, 49 mph, charging. Where I did the install at my second home, if I had it to do over, I would have used the #4 instead of the #2.
     
  9. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    Batesville, IN
  10. buzzbar

    buzzbar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Seattle area
    It DOES require a disconnect, but the circuit breaker itself can act as the disconnect IF it has a permanent 'lockout' on it.

    Here's the code reference:


    625.23 Disconnecting Means. For electric vehicle supply
    equipment rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts
    to ground, the disconnecting means shall be provided and installed
    in a readily accessible location. The disconnecting
    means shall be capable of being locked in the open position.
    The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting
    means shall be installed on or at the switch or
    circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall
    remain in place with or without the lock installed. Portable
    means for adding a lock to the switch or circuit breaker
    shall not be permitted.

    Readily accessible does not mean 'within site'. The purpose of disconnect switch is to turn off the power for service work. If it's out of site, a lockout would prevent somebody turning the power back on while you're working on the equipment.

    Here's an example of a breaker lockout (different brands vary in appearance and operation):


    Universal_Circuit_Breaker_Lockout_Device_-_Placement.jpg
    Andy (electrical contractor)
     
  11. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,244
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Here's a question about a technicality: An HPWC is "electric vehicle supply equipment rated more than 60 amperes". If you were permitting an installation with a 40A or 60A breaker, would you still need the disconnect? The technicality is that the HPWC is rated and capable of exceeding 60A, but the installation is not exceeding the rule threshold.
     
  12. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    Andy, I read the last sentence to disallow the portable lock-out that you show, because it can be removed from the breaker.

    That said, I've talked to a few inspectors who view provisions for locking the panel door closed while the breaker is open as sufficient for disconnecting means. The wonderful interpretations of AHJ's... :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    You would not need the disconnect because technically, the rating changes when you change the DIP switches on the HPWC.
     
  13. buzzbar

    buzzbar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Seattle area
    You're correct. The picture that I posted was the result of a quick google image search. :) I was referring to one that cannot be removed without taking off the panel cover.

    But thanks for pointing that out!
     
  14. jthompson

    jthompson JThompson

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Fairfax, Virginia, United States
    Here's my HPWC installation! IMG_1049.jpg
     
  15. Solarguy

    Solarguy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    119
    Location:
    Indialantic, Florida
    #15 Solarguy, Aug 1, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
    As the OP I'd like to thank all those who shared their pictures and advice. Since I have so much time on my hands (waiting for the Model S and even longer for the Model X) my OCD kicked into high gear. I just finished installing two HPWC's to supplement the two 14-50 outlets in the garages. I was able to source both HPWC's for $900 each from two people selling them on eBay, new in the box, because they bought them with their Model S order and then decided not to install them. I also sourced two used Square D 3 phase 100 amp. disconnects removed from industrial applications and wired them for single phase 240 volts. These were only $75 each from eBay but retail for $450 each from an electrician or supply house. This allowed me to use 1 AWG copper run in 1 1/4" plastic conduit from each 200 amp. main panel to the disconnect enabling little to no voltage drop in each of the 40 and 45 foot runs respectively. I used 2 AWG copper from the disconnect to the HPWC's and both are set for their full 100 amp. capability. The house has a 400 amp. service so each HPWC is on a separate 200 amp. panel.
    I was going to install the working bay (the ones with the lift) HPWC on the wall next to the air compressor until my wife, who is not an engineer like me, suggested I mount it on the lift post in the center of the two bays so it could be used from either parking spot. Once again the old adage: "She may not always be right but she is never wrong" applies big time. What should have been so obvious to me but wasn't is beyond me and I fully admit she got it so right on this one. Just one more reason I love her so.
    The installation on the lift post required the fabrication of some mounting brackets for the HPWC so there is no interference with the lifts mechanism. I couldn't help myself with the old gas pump sign just to remind me of the fossil fuel past I came from and am now leaving behind. So now I think we are pretty well set to charge both of the Tesla's to be and any friends and visitors as well.

    View attachment 55209 View attachment 55210 View attachment 55211 View attachment 55212 View attachment 55213 View attachment 55214 View attachment 55215

    IMG_0258.jpg IMG_0255.jpg IMG_0252.jpg IMG_0253.jpg IMG_0261.jpg IMG_0259.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  16. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,344
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Installed a HPWC and a NEMA 14-50 ... for use one at a time by guests :cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. scottfl

    scottfl Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    sarasota
    My dual HPWC setup
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like x 1

Share This Page