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Posted 0-60 times using which wheels?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by TurnFast, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

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    Are all the posted 0-60 times using the base model of each drive train? Meaning the advertised 0-60 times for AWD and P are using Aeros?
    Seems like the 0-60 times would be affected by the grip of the tires, so it seems like either the base P with 18” Aeros would be slower than advertised, or the P with performance package would have a faster than advertised 0-60 (though I have a hard time believing they wouldn’t advertise that as part of the performance package like they do with the top speed)
    Or am I completely off and the tires don’t matter to 0-60 times?
     
  2. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #2 Xenoilphobe, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Tires and wheel weight matter

    I8 stockers with good summer sport tires would be the fastest. Michelin Performance Super Sports or a better tire.


     
  3. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #3 Xenoilphobe, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Why do you think racers spend $12,000 for these 15 pound wheels. Also Tesla is hyper conservative on their published numbers. I bet if you put these wheels on a P3D, you could get close to 3.1 second 0-60 and on the track these would crush all comparable cars in its class in the hands of an experienced track driver

     
  4. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    Here is a guy who got them for his S

     
  5. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

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    Totally get that the wheels matter. I guess the crux of my question is: which wheel + tire combinations are being used to produce the advertised 0-60 times?
    If I buy a base performance model with stock aero wheels am I going to see the advertised 3.5s 0-60? Do I need to get the performance package to get 3.5s?
     
  6. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    That sir is a damn good question. I would speculate yes and it would only get better with sticker summer tires and lighter wheels.

    My understanding is the performance package adds “bling” not increased acceleration.
     
  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    I expect they're with stock wheels as in you can get the car that way stock, not necessarily always the aeros.

    That said- if they're doing the 3 like the S, the P model time is including rollout to make it look faster than the other non-Ps, and the non-Ps are without rollout.
     
  8. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

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    Is that standard practice? To use a rollout on your high end models and a dead start for the lower end models?
    That seems pretty shady to me.

    Though if that is what they are doing it makes the AWD an even better deal.

    I wonder if that’s one of the reasons they’re not letting anyone do a proper review of the performance model yet with a vbox to verify the base 0-60 claims.
     
  9. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    It's been standard for Tesla on past models- hence why it seems likely they did the same on the 3. And I agree it makes the AWD an even better proposition if they did it here.

    Order a Model S

     
  10. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    This is standard practice by most manufacturers https://www.motortrend.com/news/motor-trend-testing/
     
  11. P85_DA

    P85_DA Supporting Member

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    I can vouch for that ..on my X P I can’t get faster than 3.1 on dragy ..with rollout I get high 2s... some guy just posted his times on dragy using P M3 ...and he got 3.8 not the 3.5 .,,,these cars are fast enough so tenths of a second dont matter to me
     
  12. Funkmobile

    Funkmobile Member

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    Unfortunately, his 0-60 3.8sec run was done on a freeway ramp with a 7% incline and on a curve
     
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  13. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #13 Xenoilphobe, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    @TurnFast answer is you don’t need the performance package to get the acceleration. The only speed increase is to the top end. 145 MPH to 155 MPH. (because I do that everyday NOT )
    438CECF1-152A-4523-BD2D-F9B28E4B3A68.png
     
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  14. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #14 Xenoilphobe, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    The upgrade buys pretty bling:
    larger and heavier 20 inch-wheels (bling)
    performance Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires ( get the same tires in 18 when you smoke them off the car in 24 months)
    carbon fiber lip spoiler (bling)
    lower suspension, I think it is 10 mm of lowering (I wouldn’t notice this)
    aluminum alloy pedals (bling)
    speed bumped to 155 from 145 (bragging rights)
    performance brakes with red painted calipers (maybe worth it if you track this puppy) for a daily driver you won’t need this due to regen

    I do not see additional claims about faster acceleration.
    3C78AFAC-D8E9-4E13-A405-E629F0CCB391.png
     
  15. P85_DA

    P85_DA Supporting Member

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    You get 1mph faster for $500/mile from 145-155 plus u get some other cool stuff ;)
     
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  16. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #16 Xenoilphobe, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    Note that the MIchelin PIlot Sport 4’s with a 300 UTQG that you could replace on the stock wheels only cost $210 each in the 18 inch wheel size and the stock tires on the 18 inch wheel are $275 each with 500 UTQG

    If you buy the same tire in the 20 inch wheel they are very few options and they cost $339 each but come with a higher 500 UTQG rating, where I live I need all seasons so on the 20’s a better option is the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ all seasons at $249 each and in the 18 inch size only $184 with a 500 UTQG rating.

    75AF8C06-B439-4CE2-BADF-C37CA2C7AE5D.png
     
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  17. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    #17 Krash, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    I doubt different tires make the car quicker. I would welcome any data. It is not like Tesla built the car to max out the capability of the tires, rather they software limit the car to the performance level they want and then get tires that have performance characteristics (including cost, range and quietness) within a buffer to prevent spin of the tires.

    If Brenspeed is right about a 5% increase in horsepower it would make 0.21 seconds of a difference in 0-60 acceleration. Of course that means that if your sticker tires (that don't make the car quicker) are mounted on larger (heavier) rims then the car will definitely be slower. But again, Brenspeed is in the perfect position to test that 5%, but they don't seem to be an objective observer. My guess is that 5% is overstated.

    Now the stopping distance 60-0 on summer performance tires could be a lot shorter than the 0-60, meaning that there is a lot of headroom to increase the car performance to where the tires would make a difference even though today they don't.
     
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  18. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #18 Xenoilphobe, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    That may be true, but each tire has a signifant impact to a couple areas I do value:
    1. My wallet
    2. My time. There is no spare and if you have ever had a flat due to the god aweful low profile tires you will know what I mean
    3 NVH. Noise vibration and harshness this car is quiet and you don’t want ride around hearing and feeling every single little bump, joint and imperfection.
    4. Dry Handling
    5. Wet Handling
    6 snow handling

    Having spent thousands of dollars replacing all three of my Model S’s 21 turbines over many years, and moving back to the 19s on all three cars, was a significant expense and tire size had a huge impact. It can mean the difference between you and misses spending hours on the side of the road waiting for service to show up due due to multiple shattered wheels over thousands of miles or replacing 4 $500 tires due to hitting a small pot hole, plus the rapid wear due to the excessive weight and high torque output of a Tesla compared to pretty all other cars in its class.

    Downgrading to 19″ Wheels

    For me it cost the followings:
    3 sets of 21 inch turbines $12,000
    3 replacement sets of Wheels and tires 19’s $6000
    Replacement of 21 tires annual before I got smart $1881 x 3 sets
    3 cracked wheels $500 each
    Time sitting on side of road listening to my wife Bitch about buying a car without a spare $?
    3 tires that had sidewalls blow out $375 to $500 depending on which wheel it was plus time sitting on the road with the boss, wife, kid a practice asking me where the hell I was. $?

    It’s made a huge difference in my costs and level of stress. 3/10s doesn’t mean anything in this car when everything around you is full seconds slower on their best driving day. If you add it up I could put down a $25,000 deposit in the savings if I had just gone with the smaller wheels when I initially bought the cars.

     
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  19. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

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    Didn’t Elon himself admit that staggered wheels with better tires could reduce 0-60 to 3.3s?

    Elon Musk on Twitter
     
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  20. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    Maybe. I just don't think it seems likely. I don't think the car is tire limited at the torque and power limits that get to 3.8 (3.5 rollout).

    Read what he said carefully (my interpretation in red)

    We gave up some grip & width in exchange for range. (thinner tires for better rolling resistance)
    Would recommend stickier tires & wider on rear for best performance. (still true for cornering and braking)
    You might get 3.3 sec 0-60 mph or better with optimized rims & tires. (true if carbon fiber rims give you 5% more power - saves 0.21s)
     
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