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Potential BOLT customers being suctioned up by Tesla !

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Quant, Apr 2, 2016.

  1. Quant

    Quant Member

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    IF Tesla ends up with 300-500 K preorders for Model 3, prior to the Chevy Bolt sales launch, the Bolt is doomed to being a marginal, bit player!

    The Bolt team needs to ask some important questions:

    1. Why is this happening : Passion, Excitement for Tesla and its designs ! Not much for Chevy todate!

    2. Where does this leave Chevy Bolt : We will know soon ( maybe in 4-5 months ) once Chevy takes orders for the Bolt at Chevy dealerships. WILL there be lines ? If not, it would an embarrassment for Chevy. I expect Chevy will launch a $10 million plus TV and print ad campaign around this fall. Maybe too late ?

    3. Will Chevy deliver on the Bolt specs ? : Not clear they will be able to hit 200 miles on a single charge ! So, they have to prove that. What incentives will Chevy dealers get to push Bolt sales as EV's don't bring same amount of service revenues ...no oil changes, no need for oil or air filters ....and lot less moving parts in EV's vs. ICE. Most dealers make the bulk of their profits through their service departments and not through new car sales. Will customers have to negotiate final price and options for the Bolt with the frustrating Chevy sales people ? And get ripped off ?

    4. Will Chevy provide big customer and dealer incentives : I am betting that Chevy will do something like : " IF you show us your Model 3 preorder reservation we will give you $1500-$2000 off !

    5. Will Chevy achieve at least 50 k sales ( assuming they will produce at least that quantity in the first 12 months after their launch )
     
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  2. eloder

    eloder Member

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    Honestly, just the fact that the Bolt is serviced by dealers and that it is not a viable car outside of a local driving area (not much greater viability than Leafs, Sparks, etc.) is reason enough for the car not being a smashing success.

    It looks like a very practical car and excellent in the city--plenty of buyers, possibly a plurality buy cars solely for practicality similar to how the Prius is successful.

    Tesla is the only one delivering a zero-compromise car, even if you ignore the awesome look/experience/technology/performance found in a Tesla.
     
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  3. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

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    The Bolt is already dead ... it costs $2000 more, but looks like it'S $10,000 cheaper than the 3.
     
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  4. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Hmm ... if someone books a 3 now - they won't get it before 2019/20. Plenty of time to get a Bolt/Leaf 2 on lease before 3 comes along.
     
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  5. Bimbels

    Bimbels GoldMember

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    The Bolt will sell - maybe as a stopgap until the Model 3 comes out, but I think it will also sell to people who don't care about supercharging and either, a) are loyal to GM or, b) who were stretching to get into a Model 3 and will miss out on the tax incentive with a Tesla. Has anyone checked in over at the Volt/Bolt forum lately? Curious what they think of the Model 3.

    I see GM offering discounts to get people into their cars, and will discount further once they reach their 200K threshold - if the Bolt is still alive by then. I do not see Tesla offering discounts once their 200K is reached, however. They may add more features for the same price.

    I am anxiously awaiting to see how other auto makers will react to the Model 3. Before the unveil, Audi admitted Tesla had "done everything right" and committed to their own EV and charging infrastructure. Audi, Porsche and VW could all share. Lets see if anyone else follows.
     
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  6. AndreSF

    AndreSF Member

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    Without fast charging infrastructure Bolt is not a very viable car IMO. I mean 200 mi rated range is good, but then what? For pure city or around driving 80 - 100 miles offered by Leaf/BMW, etc. is plenty, and you need another car to travel far. Chevy might do what Nissan and BMW have done and have some kind of a deal for a year or two with DCFC providers.
    Anyway, IMO currently Volt is a better buy from Chevy vs Bolt for many reasons, so if you want BEV, Tesla is really the only sound choice.
    Not to mention pretty gloomy Chevy dealership experience overall (speaking as recently converted to Tesla Model S former Volt driver)
     
  7. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Member

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    [QUOTE=" ...the Bolt is doomed to being a marginal, bit player![/QUOTE]

    May be, all other EVs are not as cute as the Model 3, but all provide a practical hatch back.

    When you live in a city, you need a small car, with a lot of trunk size.
    You don't care about having a panoramic back window.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    The Bolt does have J1772 CCS capability. That's "fast charging" capability by most definitions. Sure, it's not as fast as a Supercharger, and the infrastructure isn't as widespread, but it's not like you're only stuck with Level 2 AC charging with the Bolt.
     
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  9. vjason

    vjason Member

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    I've avoided all electric until it was both "affordable" and a capable of long distance travel. I have a feeling there are many out there like me.

    Appearance aside, the Bolt only meets one of those two needs. Even through I know you might be able to cobble together long distance drives using random charges, Tesla is the only one committed to making it actually possible, efficient, and require very little planning.

    Only Tesla is committed to making a BEV a no compromise vehicle. Until other manufacturers decide to invest in a charging infrastructure their BEV is more of a "me too" product than a viable plan.

    If GM were smart, they'd partner with Tesla to expand the charging infrastructure (and support their products). A combination of pride and priorities likely prevents that, but it would be the fastest way to solve one of the biggest issues with the Bolt.
     
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  10. AndreSF

    AndreSF Member

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    I did not say lack of "capability", I said lack of infrastructure... I don't know about typical DCFC stations config, but most I've seen are 2 - 4 cabinets design and there is always someone there, or systems out of service, etc. Widespread is the key IMO, speed of current DCFC systems is ok.
     
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  11. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    Totally agree with you there. The maintenance and upkeep of most public chargers is pretty abysmal. They're either out-of-service, damaged, not yet activated, and there seems to be little incentive to keep them consistently operational and functional. I don't even have an EV (yet), and I notice this!
     
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  12. acentre

    acentre Member

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    May be, all other EVs are not as cute as the Model 3, but all provide a practical hatch back.

    When you live in a city, you need a small car, with a lot of trunk size.
    You don't care about having a panoramic back window.

    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
    If you require the utility of the rear hatch, and desire an ev, I would buy the Bolt, but I would never purchase a GM product again....
     
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  13. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    I would like to think that internally, there was a lot of discussion and agonizing about making the Model 3 a liftback. My guess is it probably came down to the following reasons:

    1) Cost goals: The engineering required to make the Model 3 a liftback and try to meet the $35,000 price point were simply too tough. Plus, with the U.S. as the primary launch market, customers generally prefer conventional notchback sedans to 5-doors by a substantial margin, although the Model S has disproven this in the premium sedan segment.

    2) Possible cannibalization of Model S sales: Maybe they thought, "If we offer the 3 with a liftback, nobody will buy the Model S anymore." Perhaps that's a bit of an overstatment, but I'm sure the subject was broached in some form or another at some point.
     
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  14. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Important thing to realize is everyone has their own circumstances, wants & needs. So, saying something is not "viable" is as weird as saying a Mazda Miata is not viable because it can't carry the whole family.

    A 200 mile range BEV - even without QC - is much better than a 100 mile BEV with QC (like Leaf) for me. Of course Leaf 2 with 200 mile range and some QC is better than 200 mile BEV without QC. I can easily go to all the local areas of interest without worrying about recharging. Also, given that in winter, freeway driving gets Leaf to 60 miles or less, 200 mile range (which will get down to 150 miles or so) would be much better. Add to that the fact that most people want some buffer ...

    There are a lot of people for whom 3 with superchargers will not be viable for long distances because they don't go along the "correct" routes or because they want a bigger vehicle to carry a lot of things (like tents and bikes etc). They will use the EV for shorter distances and take an ICE for longer trips.

    As I said, there are a lot of different scenarios in which Bolt would be good enough.
     
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  15. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    I'll be honest...I'll probably check out and test-drive the Bolt when it comes out. Sure, it won't have the status and style of the Model 3, but it ticks off a lot of the right boxes for me, AND it's a hatch. Something I was hoping and expecting the Model 3 would be.
     
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  16. Weezer Fan

    Weezer Fan Member

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    I have educated myself about the Bolt quite a bit. It was designed with car sharing in mind and GM has begun a partnership with Uber.

    There are 2 reasons I have decided against the Bolt: 1)too small. It is the same size as a Chevy Sonic and after being in a bad car accident, I won't buy a small car. I do more than city driving.
    2)no awd. I really do need it in Colorado, especially with mountain driving.
     
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  17. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    The first half of the statement has nothing to do with the second half. The Tesla preorders are fully refundable and anyone who's waffling between the two certainly could cancel the preorder at any time and decide to buy the Bolt instead.

    They are rather different cars, each with some concrete advantages over the other - and we haven't seen all the details about either one yet, which makes it rather hard to draw meaningful conclusions.

    The information so far does build a compelling case for the Model 3 for a lot of people, but I don't think it's deadly to the Bolt.
     
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  18. Mihai75

    Mihai75 Member

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    GM can't sell more than 40-50 000 Bolts / year anyway. Where are they going to get batteries for more than that per year? LG doesn't have enough factories for now.

    From my european perspective, I think the Bolt (or Opel Ampera-E as it will be called here) can sell quite well. I think if Renault doesn't come out with a new Zoe with at least a 300km (real) range by end of 2017 when the Opel will be available in Europe, the Bolt will be my next electric. I just can't digest the Model 3 interior...and the Bolt also seems more practical for me. I often have to load equipment, long tripods and things like that. The trunk opening on the M3 is for me another design blunder in this model.

    The reasons the Bolt can do quite well in Europe I think are:

    - generally the distances are smaller here. I mean, in most europeans mentality, a road trip where you travel more than 600km per day is kind of unusual. So with the Bolt, you fast charge 2 times, so it's also a good car to go on long holidays with. Certainly more than enough to take short weekend trips on.

    - the fast charging networks in most western european countries are starting to shape up. Especially by end of 2017 the situation will not be bad at all. So even if you don't have access to Teslas nice network, there are alternatives, even now. For example in France, the situation is night and day now, in regards to fast charging, even comparing to just 2 years ago.

    But:

    I think both Tesla and GM would be really dumb to not try and take advantage of their network. If I end up buying a Bolt, I would have no problem paying to charge at the Tesla super chargers. So, GM has a powerful sales argument, Tesla gets more income. You could argue that Tesla looses an edge, but Bolts aren't going to sell at 200 000 / year anyway. That's impossible. At least not in the next 5 years or so....
     
  19. Sparky

    Sparky Member

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    GM could grab some of the Model 3 customers. If the Bolt is available in the Fall, offer a deal to Model 3 RN holders. Something like a 4 year lease and $3k lease cash for $199/mo (first edition car, residual is somewhat subjective). Talk up the features er, feature of the Bolt; "it's a hatchback!". The Model 3 customers will have their cash tied up in the Bolt by the time it's the Model 3 configure moment and they'll have to cancel or take a big loss.
     
  20. HookBill

    HookBill Member

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    Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought I read were L2 charging is standard on the Bolt but L3 is an add-on.
     

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