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Potential BOLT customers being suctioned up by Tesla !

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Quant, Apr 2, 2016.

  1. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Again, we are talking about pre-orders not orders. When did I say anything about ordering a Model 3?

    As for the FF91, their free "pre-order" has no collateral, neither in a nominal deposit (as per Tesla) nor a credit card number for future payment. They also don't have a mechanism of verifying identity (as per in-person car unpaid pre-orders where they can verify ID), so people have used made up names for their "pre-order". In FF's case it is no different than an email list of interested people, even though they technically fit the definition of pre-order. However, in practical terms, surely you can see the material difference from someone that put in a $1000 deposit? There's a reason why FF refused to tell how many paid reservations they got.
     
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  2. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    As per ACC, I don't think it is material to whether a car can be considered compliance.

    The situation is certainly interesting if the 2017 Volt has it. Given GM is venturing on OTA updates, it'll be interesting to see if they will do a software update approach like Tesla to offer it to first year Bolts.
     
  3. alseTrick

    alseTrick Member

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    Whatever you say, brah.
     
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  4. wws

    wws Member

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    The 2017 Volt definitely has ACC. It is built on top of the Premier level trim, with both the Driver Confidence 1 and Driver Confidence 2 options. However ACC cars have an additional forward radar that non-ACC cars lack. Because of this, it is easy to spot a Volt with ACC because it has a different upper grill style.

    Given the accelerated development and rush to manufacture the Bolt EV, I can well imagine they just didn't have time to include ACC in the initial release of the car. The DC1 and DC2 options are the same as the Volt. So it is easy to guess ACC will be a 2018 option.
     
  5. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    But, you do realize you're just being really picky at this point. Where if you googled it you'd see TheVerge called it pre-orders, and Electrek called it reservations. I do think calling it a reservation is technically more correct so I don't necessarily disagree with you if you were my editor.

    I wasn't too concerned about what it was called, but more about what it demonstrates in terms of intent. It requires loaning Tesla $1K in an interest free loan until it's ready to order or until they walk away (or they buy another Tesla). It's not at all like an FF91 reservation because that doesn't require any money down.

    Personally I hate pre-orders, and it feels like a pre-order to me. It asks me to give someone money on something that doesn't yet exist. When they started taking reservations they did so before showing people what the interior would look like, or the specifics on the options that would be available. To say you had to have a bit of blind faith in Elon is putting it lightly.

    It's one of those things that I hate, but I have to give the marketing people credit. To simply call it a reservation isn't really taking into an account what something like that does to an average buyer psychologically. It was actually kind of genius because they were able to turn those *cough* pre-orders *cough* into actual orders for the 60. Because they got people thinking, and then they dangled that carrot right in front of them.

    The other thing that's important in this discussion is that Tesla is selling people on an idea more than a physical thing. Like an order for the FSD package with a Model S/X isn't for something that actually exists today. It's a firm order for something as non-existent as the Model 3.
     
  6. alseTrick

    alseTrick Member

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    I don't care anymore.
     
  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Right. The 2017 Bolt EV is missing the radar that GM uses for ACC. I've read that the BMW i3 has ACC at slower speeds just using a camera without radar but I doubt that GM would implement something like that as a software update for older Bolts.
     
  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    The 30K initial demand projection was made before all of the Bolt EV car awards. GM has said they can make at least 50K per year if demand is strong enough and maybe more. I suspect GM fears the Tesla Model 3 will limit demand for the Bolt once it finally starts rolling out the factory in Fremont in high volume.
     
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  9. Maximilien

    Maximilien Member

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    No matter how someone argues, no supercharging system is a big deal breaker. Bolt lacks the fast charging system.

    My trip to Sacramento would have been days, not hours.
     
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  10. diamond.g

    diamond.g Member

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    Level 2 or Level 3?

    From my understanding only the infotainment unit will see OTA updates. They won't update driver systems over the air.

    The Bolt has DCFC. As of right now we don't know how limited it is, but it does exist.
     
  11. GSP

    GSP Member

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    GM has been working on autonomous cars since at least the 1970's. The engineers working on it have retired from GM without a production release. Some have passed away without seeing it.

    It was too bad Cadillac did not meet their 2015 target. I wonder if the engineers were not ready, or if management lost their nerve to release and face up to potential liability after Tesla's fatality in Florida. I don't know, but I suspect the latter.

    GSP
     
  12. dsvick

    dsvick Member

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    Personally, I think the two of you are largely just arguing over semantics, however, on the Tesla reservation agreement it does say, "While this Reservation secures the approximate delivery priority within your region, it does not constitute the purchase or order of a vehicle."
     
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  13. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    [
    From my reading the problem predates the Florida Crash. The Super Cruise was intended to find a safe place, then pull off the road and park, and call for emergency assistance if the driver does not respond. The NHTSA wanted to see more testing because that's actual autonomy on a public roadway at high speed. No conscious driver. Apparently Super Cruise is geo-mapped for it's operational window which is mostly interstates. I did not hear GM mentioning that until 2017.
     
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  14. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    What is it using for AEB rangefinding? A loaded Bolt EV appears amazingly similar to a loaded 2017 Volt but the range setting button only operates the warning, not the cruise?
     
  15. Maximilien

    Maximilien Member

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    Still not fast enough to supercharger. But the bigger problem is that there are not many stations with DCFC unless GM or ChargePoint makes more like Tesla does.
     
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  16. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Not days. More hours than a supercharger trip, sure, but the DC Fast charging network is pretty good in CA. I think you could easily drive a Bolt all over the main corridors of the state. Ironically, I have supercharged once and used Chademo once, and the 50kW Chademo was faster as I was only pulling 35kW at Mojave. I am looking forward to experiencing a full rate supercharger on our next road trip. But if we run into issues like Mojave, than, it's good to know there are lots of alternatives.

    IMG_0325.PNG
     
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  17. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    While that's true, I've heard nothing from GM that would indicate they plan to increase production, outside of that single comment (which was made offhand).
     
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  18. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Well it was an argument predicated on the semantic difference between pre-order vs order in the first place and there is a significant difference between the two terms. @alseTrick says that the claim about pre-orders for Model 3 is incorrect regardless of which term you use, as if the two terms were interchangeable, when they are not.
     
  19. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    What inventory level should Chevrolet maintain on a car segment that has a total market demographic of under 1% for all brands and types (plug-ins)?

    GM's record is about 30,000 PHEV/EV's in a year (2016). So you are thinking they should make perhaps 100,000 this year of a single model, or even 50,000 of a single model?

    Perhaps 100,000 would make sense if the Bolt/Ampera was the only EV/PHEV on the market, but it is not.
     
  20. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    To be honest, I will be surprised if 30,000 US Bolt EVs are sold in 2017. It would be a good thing for EV adoption, but it is not supported historically. I could see 50,000 selling globally though.
     

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