TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Potential BOLT customers being suctioned up by Tesla !

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Quant, Apr 2, 2016.

  1. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,197
    I'm of the opinion that the market position and design of the Bolt is one of the self-inflicted demand limiters for the vehicle. The car itself should actually be quite roomy, but the tall profile makes it look really small. The choice of materials is the same story (makes it seem like bottom rung economy car, when slightly better materials would have improved that perception without much extra cost).
     
    • Like x 1
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,621
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Pretty early days at this point. Will be interesting to see how convenient these trips become when more Bolts are trying to make them.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,889
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Nor Leaf owners... (kinda expect it from the GMC pickup driver, sadly).
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like x 1
  4. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,080
    Location:
    EU
    Actually, those are just the two other cars of the Model S owner supercharging overnight in the middle (a local guy). Making sure no idle charges!
     
    • Funny x 1
  5. Drone Flyer

    Drone Flyer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Canada
    Except the problem, as I've said before, is availability. Say you're on a road trip out of town and you need to charge. You find a CCS high speed charger but it is occupied. Then what?
    The only viable EV out there is a Tesla.
    The exception for another EV type is if the car will strictly be used for in town usage only and NEVER used for a road trip!
    Good luck with that!
     
    • Like x 1
  6. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,760
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    I wonder what affect the demographics will play in CCS expansion.

    Based purely on reading, an unusually high percentage of Tesla owners take vacations by car when compared to typical sedan owners.

    Will the Bolt attract the same kind of buyer? I have my doubts. It will probably attract commuters with long commutes that existing lower priced EVs cannot reach. This means less remote charging per 1000 cars.
     
  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,760
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    I have owned many cars that never traveled more than 250 miles from home. I have others that have towed racecar trailers coast to coast.

    Many of us fly to destinations.

    Note that most EVs on the road today in North America have under 120mi EPA range.
     
  8. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,621
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Difference being, of course, that only Teslas can use the SC network. Many of the DCFCs used along those routes would potentially be used by locals, as well.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,080
    Location:
    EU
    I think there would be less pressing need to do so, though, when they can just charge at home - if the daily driving is "second car" in nature and mostly about getting to work and back. The size of the Bolt makes it more inviting for this type of local use anyway.

    It is a common argument on TMC that most EV charging can be done at home and is very convenient. It is a compelling argument and most importantly it is quite true when the range of the car exceeds usual (or even many unusual scenarios) daily driving, like the Bolt does.

    Come to think of it, when not travelling, I rarely charge my Tesla outside of home with a need (sometimes I charge when parking at a place where a charger is available). I can think of one instance in the last six months when I had to do that as I had not gotten myself to plug-in the plug for days at home. :) Served me right...
     
    • Like x 1
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,197
    That's the exact situation I talked about a long while back when discussing the CCS network. It certainly works for a demonstration run when there is practically only 1 or 2 cars doing a certain trip, but not something I would risk taking as soon as demand even gets moderately high.

    One thing that can help is if the Bolt can do 80kW charging and VW's investment will help also (presuming the money is used wisely). I don't believe there is an answer yet if the Bolt can do 80kW charging.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. gregd

    gregd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    879
    There is, however, another factor. When one buys a Nissan Leaf, it comes with a bunch of free charging at EvGO stations here (perhaps others too), so I'm seeing a number of local Leafs at the new DCFC here in town. Out of town folks, yes, but there is increased traffic by locals because it's free. That may be a local or regional offer, but it's the kind of thing that can easily swamp the availability of charging spots. And there's nothing one can do about it (unlike Tesla's actions re the Super Charger network).
     
    • Like x 1
  12. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,895
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Many have spoken of the 'roominess' of the BOLT. It is actually one cubic foot smaller in volume than the Honda FIT. Both are 'Small Wagon' classified by the EPA.
     
  13. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,895
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    It would be nice to see the CCS standard established by having locations every 50 miles or so. And for those to each have no less than four stalls. That way they could be as convenient as possible. But it seems no one is particularly interested in seeing that happen in the near future. Too bad.
     
  14. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    #254 Az_Rael, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
    Or, you drive home from Vegas in your Tesla and find a line 10 cars long at the Barstow SC. Then what? You wait. Same thing at that CCS charger. Or even worse, you drive through expecting the Sweetwater Texas SC to be working, and its not (this happened quite a bit to that SC after it opened). Now you are spending the night. Right now all EVs have a potential congestion/availability issue due to the limited networks.

    I am looking forward to adding a CCS adapter from Tesla to my options, though. I would hope it might go to a higher charge rate than the Chademo adapter does now.
     
  15. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,662
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    1 or 2 CCS chargers are far more likely to be occupied than 6-20 Superchargers.
     
    • Love x 1
  16. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    684
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    As we age ;-) this keeps coming up for us too, so I'm in line for a Bolt test drive to see how it actually feels. The Model S is low be aerodynamic, and combined with a thick floor, and rather short rear doors, entry/exit becomes a challenge for the elderly. Of course the Model X is probably much more accommodating there. So you're right Bolt vs Model 3 comes down to sports sedan vs crossover/hatchback. Tesla will eventually have a Model Y and it sounds like GM envisions all sorts of derivatives of the Bolt platform.
     
  17. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,662
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    We (Americans?) put on a pound per year after 30.

    A standard seat is 20" ( in America?) across on the rear bottom.

    A Bolt's front seat is 17" across. Great for physically fit seniors.
     
    • Funny x 2
  18. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,197
    Queuing theory says it's not the same thing, even if charge rate was the same, which it isn't. Even putting aside the much larger carrying capacity of a multistall station, if you come to a scenario where you arrive at a full station, your wait time will be drastically less at a 4-16 stall station than at one with only 1-2 chargers.

    This is because you are waiting for the stall that finishes the quickest, not the only charger where probability of waiting a full session is high.
     
    • Love x 1
  19. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Once I get my Model 3, I plan on buying a whole bunch of different 220/240 adapters, so I can plug in wherever I can find a higher-voltage plug. I'm not overly concerned about it. Yes, driving an EV long distances requires a little more planning and foresight than an ICE at the moment, but nothing insurmountable if you're prepared for it.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    True. EVGo is currently putting in a 4 station DC fast charger in Baker scheduled to open in June so that will help. They seem to be building out their network pretty quickly at least here in CA. We have had several new fast charging stations open near us within the last few months on their network.
     
    • Informative x 1

Share This Page