Chickenlittle
Banned
Perhaps he was offered deal that if he claimed responsibility he would have job for life? How jaded? No more than company wide fraud for years would have been
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Well, good thing they took out that 20 billion (euro ?) loan.
Update: I read about the situation. This looks like the tip of the iceberg. Many other countries are on track to take similar action. Throw in possible diminished value suits and it looks like Volkswagen is finished. Forget about the phaeton, E Bulli, E tron, Mission E and I guess the E Golf. Nothing to see here.
Last edited:
Hopefully for them and the car owners that is enough to make the repairs. Don't know if it would be enough to pay the fines.
Last edited:
Benz
Active Member
On Seeking Alpha:
"VW likely to buy back 115K cars in U.S."
Volkswagen assumes it will have to buy back a fifth, or about 115K scandal-hit cars, in the United States as a result of its emissions crisis, Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung reports.
The rest of the 500K U.S. vehicles will need major refits, incurring significant costs for parts and a long stay at the garage as sections of the exhaust must be reconstructed and approved.
"VW likely to buy back 115K cars in U.S."
Volkswagen assumes it will have to buy back a fifth, or about 115K scandal-hit cars, in the United States as a result of its emissions crisis, Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung reports.
The rest of the 500K U.S. vehicles will need major refits, incurring significant costs for parts and a long stay at the garage as sections of the exhaust must be reconstructed and approved.
Benz
Active Member
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The ones where a fix is more costly than the value of the car itself.
So that likely means the oldest ones.
About 20 years ago Nissan bought my dad's minivan. A safety defect was not fixable.
Retail Blue Book on the Van was $4k and they gave him $6k for it. Then crushed it.
I think there are a lot of parallels between VW and CMG (Chipotle). Both companies sell fundamentally flawed products while touting their benefits. VW did this with their clean diesel campaigns and Chipotle promoted their safe and fresh Non-gmo, locally sourced produce.
The delays in VW coming up with a solution suggest that they either can't fix the cars without sacrificing performance/longevity OR the fixes are too expensive.
The delays in VW coming up with a solution suggest that they either can't fix the cars without sacrificing performance/longevity OR the fixes are too expensive.
I did hear some speculation that the DNA match of the Chipotle bacteria was the same accross the country. That led to some speculation that it may have been industrial sabotage.
Chipotle's E. coli outbreak is stumping scientists - Business Insider
Yeah, because of Chipotle's anti-GMO stance. But Chipolte has more problems than just e coli. They had issues with hepatitus and norovirus which are not related to the food chain. Poor food preparation techniques due to the fact that all of their food is in the open and easy for bacteria to spread.
There is a risk to tsla and their superchargers. They are vulnerable to industrial sabotage from the oil and traditional car manufacturers.
Bloomberg: Renault Shares Drop on Apparent Fraud Probe Into Emissions
Renault's stock price drops by 16%. Peugeot SA drops by 6.5%. Fiat loses 7.7% in premarket (Google Finance quotes).
Renault's stock price drops by 16%. Peugeot SA drops by 6.5%. Fiat loses 7.7% in premarket (Google Finance quotes).
Last edited:
And now comes Mercedes : Forbes article here. Forty times the allowable NOx emissions in cold weather? Well I suppose technically that's not cheating at the test labs (as VW did) if no test labs are freezing cold inside... But perhaps the question is not whether you're cheating at the test labs, but cheating on the world.
Gerasimental
Member
Speechless. Can't believe they have the nerve to gleefully point to a technicality and claim innocence. So their cars in many cases are operating without NOx cleaning for almost 100% of the time? Thinking northern Europe and Russia/USA/Canada where it rarely exceeds 10 degrees in winter and where most Mercedes are sold.
jgs
Active Member
Do any of you know if the relevant regulations specify ambient temperature? The other thing I'm still not clear about is whether the US regulations specify only that the test must be passed, or if it's rather, that the emissions target must be met, and passing the test is a necessary but not always sufficient condition for establishing that the target has been met. As I understand it the relevant EU regulations specify only that the test suite must be passed.
If there isn't direct, blatant, premeditated violation of the law, as was the case with VW, I wouldn't imagine fines and criminal sanctions would be applied. But if they exceed emissions as egregiously as is reported, it seems entirely plausible that approval could be revoked.
If there isn't direct, blatant, premeditated violation of the law, as was the case with VW, I wouldn't imagine fines and criminal sanctions would be applied. But if they exceed emissions as egregiously as is reported, it seems entirely plausible that approval could be revoked.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
This is the sort of finding that may not lead to any change to what's already been done, and can easily lead to changes in the future. If it turns out, as indicated in the article, routine operation of vehicles are in conditions which result in the NOx controls being turned off, even if that's a behavior that is currently allowed in the regulations, it's not hard to imagine those regulations and associated testing being updated. An obvious update would be to establish what the permissible level of NOx emissions would be when ambient temp is below 10C.
I'd be willing to bet that no government is going to go with a 40x threshold when the temp goes under 10C.
More simplistically, you can meet the letter of the law while violating the spirit. Some of the reaction you're seeing here are people that see this as violating the spirit of the law, even if it meets the letter. I happen to agree with that stance. Being legal doesn't mean you're being moral, and 40x NOx levels under moderately cool temperatures isn't moral (though it may be necessary for the technology to perform), at least IMHO.
Its not cheating, it just that the SCR systems work best with "warm" exhaust. Like a truck running all day along the highway.
A chilled engine with cold air is not going to be good SCR efficiency, which leads to NOx emissions.
VW cheated, intentional deception (like a student who takes hidden answers to the test)
Renault merely studied to the test (like a student who only studied for the test)
Daimler took the expensive solution, but even that does not work for all conditions, (like a student who studied hard for the course, but not for real life)
all 3 are different, even if none work well in real life.
Yes, then laws will be updated an applied to new cars. There are currently millions of cars on the road that do not comply with the current emission guidelines, because they were build before those regulations were passed. Maybe we should sue Tesla because their battery swap program was just a ZEV credit grab and the potential cars that could swap was never close to reality.
Similar threads
