Potential Model 3 buyer - spec question

[WannabeOwner]

and the 0-60

Only got the (doesn't-seem-reliable!) dealer's word for that? But, yeah, the rest points to former owner being a DIY mechanic

As for why I think it's important, perhaps I'm giving it too much weight, it's just that I read it does make the car more efficient and so given the choice, I'd rather have it

Agreed "given the choice" better to have. I'd put other considerations above it though. IF you need the range? and 2nd-hand then there are a number of considerations

Perhaps the heated steering wheel isn't actually a big deal

For me "yes and no". Climate on before departure whole car is warm, no need for heated steering wheel. That's fine (for me) when leaving home - I will precondition the whole car (on shore-power) before departure. But when I'm out and about? I have a terrible history of forgetting to do that! and when I return to the car with cold hands (I have poor circulation) the heated wheel helps a lot. Never had it on a car before, now it will be an essential item in future. 1st World Problem!. I had the same the first time I got a car with electric windows ... and central locking ... and Auto Pilot . So if you remember to warm the car 10-15 minutes beforehand I reckon that would be fine.

I have read that the turbines are better for range than the previous Performance wheels though

Damage to wheels with very low profile tyres is an issue (hard to say if more of an issue with Tesla than other brands, but some folk say they didn't had that problem with previous non-Tesla mega-cars with no-profile tyres)

So ... is range something you need? e.g. out and back journeys for work "quite often"? 'Coz if so there are some considerations, and I think favouring range is definitely important. In that regard neither Performance nor Acceleration Boost adds much. They are mostly in the 0-40 MPH range - away-from-the-lights. Overtaking from 40-90 they are all much of a muchness. My MS, M3 and MY (bog standard) have significantly different 0-60 times but their 40-90 is identical for MS and M3 and a smidegone slower for MY. Indeed the M3SR+ might win being the lightest ...

Don't let me stop you buying an M3P if you want one My first was a Model-S Performance back in 2015. After I'd demo'd it to all my mates - a month or two - I very rarely used Performance as too brutal / uncomfortable for any passengers in the car. The replacement MS is bog-standard. Still plenty fast enough when I need it

But range is very important to me. Back then I was doing 35K miles a year, lots out-and-back journeys that were at range limit, and a couple of times a month out-of-range and needed supercharger, The replacement Model-S LR Raven has 20% more range, and I now only need Supercharger a couple of times a year - rather than twice a month. For me that's a lot of "convenience", especially as Superchargers get more busy and likelihood of waiting increases.

You can check your longer journeys in ABetterRoutePlanner - including trying various M3 models (2018-2020, 2021 and 2022, and (for the first) wheel sizes from 18" to 20" with / without aero-covers, and M3P too). And try that with "Road Conditions : Temperature" of, say, 5C to see how those journeys would compare in Winter.

If range is not a factor for you then: as you were

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The more I look at that car, the more I’d walk away.

If you want to proceed, get them to take a picture of the software screen to finally decide what model it really is and what packages it has added. If it’s a LR with trinkets then they’re passing it off as a different model.

 

[Banzibarn]

Range isn't generally important to be, I really just want the LR for the extra performance and for the better stereo, and for when I go on holiday. In that regard, heat pump/no heat pump, and big wheels affecting range isn't really an issue day to day.

Interesting comments on the performance, I've seen this on Car Wow with the LR actually passing the Performance at higher speeds.

I currently have a car which is quite striking (gets a lot of comments), and I enjoyed walking away from it and looking back. The Model 3 is much more subtle which is part of the reason why the look of the performance car is appealing, but something is telling me on this occasion that there's just something not quite right with the car in question, so perhaps I will indeed walk away.

 

[Jason71]

Range isn't generally important to be, I really just want the LR for the extra performance and for the better stereo, and for when I go on holiday. In that regard, heat pump/no heat pump, and big wheels affecting range isn't really an issue day to day.

Interesting comments on the performance, I've seen this on Car Wow with the LR actually passing the Performance at higher speeds.

I currently have a car which is quite striking (gets a lot of comments), and I enjoyed walking away from it and looking back. The Model 3 is much more subtle which is part of the reason why the look of the performance car is appealing, but something is telling me on this occasion that there's just something not quite right with the car in question, so perhaps I will indeed walk away.

I don't think there is really much mystery. It's an LR (calipers make that a given) which has had a spoiler added and different alloys + probably AB.
The question is what does that say to you about the previous owner and how they would have treated the car? Does this suggest they are more likely to have thrashed it than say the owner of a standard LR or P? Or maybe it says they really loved it and looked after it? Who knows. End of the day is still under warranty so as long as it looks OK it probably is.

 

[GRiLLA]

Regarding price, yes but I guess the extra is much less that putting the 20s on and paying for the performance boost after purchase.

Depends if you value having Enhanced Autopilot, at £3,400 and included on the cars sold by Tesla that would make them significantly better value.

 

[Medved_77]

The previous owner has also added the performance foot pedals. Hard to tell from the pictures but I think the boot upper carpet has been added too. I can see a slight overlap of felt at the top of the boot mouth.

It has the original power assisted boot, metal scroll wheels on the steering wheel, no physical SOS button, new centre console design and revised bonnet tub. Did all of these variations pre-date the heat pump in late 2020? I can't remember.

Might be just the camera angle but the alignment doesn't look very good where the boot joins the nearside quarter panel.

Looks like an enthusiast owned LR, hopefully with AB. I'd take comfort in buying a car that belonged to an enthusiast if you were in the market for an LR.

For comparison, a new LR white with white is £56,090. Add £1,500 for Acceleration Boost and about £3,000 once you've bought the Uberturbines and sold the standard aero wheels and you're looking at around £60,590. A new performance is £61,090 atm.

 

[Banzibarn]

Enhanced Autopilot is probably not something I'd use much but as a tech enthusiast as well as a car enthusiast, it really appeals to me. My current car drives almost autonomously on the motorway and I love it, and I know the Tesla will do this (probably better) out of the box, but the extra features of navigate on autopilot etc would be fun.

On balance though, I'd probably use the acceleration boost more than the autopilot, but then again, the standard long range is fast anyway!

How are Tesla with regards to warranty on modified cars? Seemingly the mods are all OEM but would still be useful to get a guage on that. Then there's the insurance implications, as the car isn't a normal Long range. I'd need to declare the wheels and acceleration boost presumably.

Thanks everyone for all your comments, it's been very useful.

 

[GlynG]

I think your overthinking and overly concerned about minutia but to be honest its a common issue with BEVs, people don't understand them like they do an ICE - terms that would apply to an ICE really doesn't apply to a BEV - like "Thrashing" An ICE being thrashed means high revs and full power - if its done when cold there can be excessive wear as the oil isn't lubricating to spec, over revving creates valve bounce - and a valve could hit a piston and damage the engine - with a BEV its just a rotor that turns, doesn't need warming up before full throttle can be applied, it has no valves to bounce - just a rev limit.

The car sounds like an enthusiast had it - a LR with AB and also added stuff to make it look like a performance - and that's common for enthusiasts to do and a lot cheaper than buying a real performance. Warranty on all cars - gone are the days when you touched the vehicle and were in danger of loosing the warranty - Its only if you modify something and that modification causes the fault or failure of something else that warranty wouldn't cover the problem - and that applies to every single consumer product you buy.

Is there no chance you can talk to the previous owner? or at least the garage retailing the car to make contact on your behalf? I know people misinterpret the GDPR regulations so they usually fear giving any details but a workaround is the retailer asking the previous owner if they wouldn't mind speaking to the prospective new owner, or in my case i found the address details of the previous owner in the cars sat nav - so i wrote to the address and provided my email - and low and behold they mailed me.

 

[Banzibarn]

Yes, could try that ref: previous owner.

Regarding AB, has anyone got this, and do insurance companies know what it is?

 

[GRiLLA]

Yes, could try that ref: previous owner.

Regarding AB, has anyone got this, and do insurance companies know what it is?

I doubt you'll have any difficulty with Tesla around warranty, the new things won't be covered, but there isn't much that you would claim against wheels.

Insurance companies would be a pain, they seemingly hate all modifications.

 

[GlynG]

I think insurance companies insure your vehicle based on its specific details (quite rightly) - therefore adding stuff (and not mention to insurer) would be an issue if you were involved in an accident or perhaps car stolen and then expected the insurance to cover the additional costs of those additions.
If for example you had PPF - If you didn't tell the insurer about it and later you had an accident, provided you didn't ask the repairer to add and therefore charge the insurer for reapplication of the PPF I cant see how they could complain or have an issue with it.
Adding PPF is not like increasing power, modifications to suspension or brakes as it doesn't affect the behaviour of the car or influence anything to do with car handling or stability its purely cosmetic - like hanging a furry dice on the rear view mirror and would I tell an insurer that? I think you know the answer.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Does this suggest they are more likely to have thrashed it than say the owner of a standard LR or P?

Interesting point. I wonder what needs to be considered for "Thrashing" of BEVs? When I had the performance Model-S I did loads of launches, demos to mates, and sometimes when on my on at a STOP when I was the only one around for miles ... Can't remember the details exactly, but when all that first came out Tesla put a counter on the number of launches and some sort of limit / penalty for "too many" (as I believe Scooby's had). There was a backlash to that and Tesla removed it ... does that sort of "thrashing" make a tangible difference to wear-and-tear / component-stress?

I'd be more concerned about 100% charging, particularly if the car left sat in that state for long periods (or similar with < 20% SOC). Plenty of stories of Taxi's regularly supercharged and left sat like at 100% overnight until the morning shift ... and even so they didn't have dramatic battery degradation.

Lots of Supercharges too - used to be that Model-S / X had a counter for that, and after NNN-Number the max rate of supercharge gradually reduced (to prolong battery life). Not heard of that on M3 battery though - it withstands much higher charge rate (at low SOC) than early Model-S/X ... so maybe they rapid-charge fast enough now that curtailing after lots of rapid charges isn't needed?

Any other abuse a used-car buyer should be wary of I wonder?

Enhanced Autopilot is probably not something I'd use much
...
the extra features of navigate on autopilot etc would be fun.

I use it every mile that I am on dual carriageway. Sometimes on an arterial-A roads (wide, good markings), but for the rest only to check if there have been any improvements, or if I am stuck in crawling traffic for a junction. Regular AP does pretty much all that.

The only thing that EAP/FSD adds, that I find useful. is ability to change lanes without having to disengage AP. Otherwise that has to be done manually and then re-engage, with a bing-bong every time, which is annoying for sleeping passengers (although "Joe Mode" reduces the volume)

I use Navigate-on-Autopilot but I think the only benefit is that it's insistence to move over to nearside lane reminds me to take an exit that I might otherwise sail past in a daydream (despite SatNav screaming at me to take the junction ...)

So I think a lot depends on what your proportion of dual-carriageway mileage is and, as you say, if you have already had TACC and stay-in-lane on previous cars then maybe not much difference (maybe Tesla does it better ... but presumably your previous car didn't do it "badly" ... and Tesla phantom-braking is a negative point. You may well be happy with regular AP if overriding to change lanes is not an annoyance.

I don't use self-park, it isn't better at it / faster than I am - but might be useful for someone not good at parking (my Mother had difficult because she couldn't easily turn her neck), nor Summon - its so slow and cumbersome that, in current guise, it isn't useful. Except when returning to car in car park and others have parked very close, or following a thunderstorm its in a puddle. I've used it once, maybe twice, in about 6 years.

 

[Rooster6655]

From the MOT check you can see that it is just an LR, any claim of performance will probably be from their modifications and perhaps the AB purchase if applicable as the car is modified from original spec

At a minimum you will have to declare the boost, tinted windows, alloys and spoiler on the insurance for this reason, this alone for some makes it not worth bothering with due to the already limited insurance options but if you are happy with that then it looks like a fair option. NOVO probably would not have issues covering modifications.

 

[Banzibarn]

I've managed to find late 2020 LR refresh with a heated steering wheel, but also full self drive, and 8k miles on the clock for a fair bit less than the modified one. Will probably put a deposit down in the morning!

I grew up with Knight Rider and this car is literally like my childhood come true

 

[Banzibarn]

Should get the car next week. Thanks again to everyone for helping me out on my decisions.

I've downloaded the Tesla App - the garage tells me that it can take a while for Tesla to register me as the new owner to be able to gain access to the car remotely. In the mean time, does this mean that won't be able to access the online services such as Spotify and live traffic data? I think I read that Tesla now allow you to tether to your phone for data, but that this still doesn't allow the maps access to traffic - you have to pay for that.

 

[GRiLLA]

Should get the car next week. Thanks again to everyone for helping me out on my decisions.

I've downloaded the Tesla App - the garage tells me that it can take a while for Tesla to register me as the new owner to be able to gain access to the car remotely. In the mean time, does this mean that won't be able to access the online services such as Spotify and live traffic data? I think I read that Tesla now allow you to tether to your phone for data, but that this still doesn't allow the maps access to traffic - you have to pay for that.

If the garage know the account you use for the Tesla app they could transfer the car to you directly and it will turn up almost immediately. If they don't you'll probably have to prove to Tesla that you are now the owner after the Registration documents arrive.

Premium Connectivity is a subscription, and you need to use the app in order to set up your subscription. Until then you would have the premium features list at Connectivity

Without the premium you still get maps and navigation, including routing to avoid traffic, you just don't get the option to show Google Satellite maps and have traffic appear visually on the map.

 

[Casss]

You also can’t use Spotify or streaming without a hotspot (obvious but worth pointing out) and you cant use sentry live view mode without premium.

 

[Banzibarn]

Thanks.

I was initially told the car had a heated steering wheel and heat pump. Now I've found out that it doesn't have the heated wheel - I can live with that. The car is a Refresh but doesn't have the wood extending to the doors so I think this indicates it's made in the USA not China. But, think I read that only the standard range models moved to China anyway?

So, regarding the heat pump, the garage are unable to say if it has one or not. What are people's thoughts on whether the heat pump is a big deal? To be honest we don't do a lot of high mileage driving so doubt it's a problem in reality, but it would be nice to know that the car has the latest features.

 

[GRiLLA]

Try using abetterrouteplanner.com and pick a route you have done or might do in the future then change the car from 2020 to 2021 and see what difference it makes. It's next to nothing, less than the difference between 18" and 19" wheels.

 

[Banzibarn]

Thanks, a good point