Potential new Tesla owner :)

[M4guy]

Hello chaps, total Newbie here (my apologies i know it can be annoying)

I’ve gone through some basic numbers and it’s looking like the savings would be pretty big if I were to move to a Tesla.

I currently have a Bmw M4 (weekend toy which I occasionally use for work too) and a Honda Insight Mk2 for the main graft.

The Insight is obviously fairly inexpensive doing around 50mpg and costs £10 per year road tax, however due to the mileage I do it costs around £480-£500 per month on fuel.

I generally do a maximum mileage of around 210 miles in a day (2x days a week) but usually around 100 miles.
I’m a company rep, so I generally travel to a area and then do approx 8-10 visits in that area before making my way home.
I can stop to charge if needs be, but I’ll be honest best and say it wouldn’t always be ideal for me.

My brother does the same job albeit slightly less mileage and uses a I3 REX which yields pretty good savings compared to his previous hybrids (CT200h, civic IMA, Insight etc) he has done a quick calculation that it would cost around £70-100 in electric costs for me charging at home.

My plan is to sell the Insight and M4 for a Tesla (probably S85 as my budget would force a early model) as obviously not paying 2x lots of tax, insurance etc will make it justifiable.

My questions are the following if anyone would be so kind to assist were possible

1- What sort of Range do people see in real world conditions? (In the wet dark winter days doing 75mph)

2- My working area is North wales, Crewe, Chester and Shrewsbury. Are there any superchargers in these areas?

3- I heard batteries degrade over time, is there a particular way to check or a age/mileage of vehicle to avoid?

Thanks in advance for any help guys

Regards, Stephen

 

[12Pack]

1- What sort of Range do people see in real world conditions? (In the wet dark winter days doing 75mph)
My guess is efficiency of about 330Wh/mi so a range of about 240 miles. Would improve perhaps 8-10% if you dropped you speed to 70mph.

2- My working area is North wales, Crewe, Chester and Shrewsbury. Are there any superchargers in these areas?
Supercharger | Tesla UK

3- I heard batteries degrade over time, is there a particular way to check or a age/mileage of vehicle to avoid?
Tesla does a particularly good job of battery management - not allowing you to charge until at tmep etc. so likely less to worry about than other BEV's. Probably 5% loss after 50kmiles. You could ask to have the specific car you are looking at to be 100% charged and check the miles. For an S85 the "rated" should be around 300.

MaxRange Tesla Battery Survey

 

[WannabeOwner]

The Insight is obviously fairly inexpensive doing around 50mpg

Assuming you have reasonable cheap electricity (e.g. Economy-7 at night) then I reckon that Tesla works out at around 150 MPG comparing price of electricity with price of Petrol.

If you want man-maths - i.e. justification rather than savings, per se ) then round-numbers Tesla will save around £100 per month for each 10,000 miles a year that your drive.

I generally do a maximum mileage of around 210 miles in a day

I would recommend that you have somewhere to charge on that Journey. A 100D would be OK for the round trip, even in Winter / adverse weather, but anything less won't.

I have a MS P90D which is good for 220 real world miles, dry warm (i.e. no AirCon) day. I allow 20 miles for "comfort", and if my journey is more than 160 miles I charge to 100% before I leave to have some come-in-handy for bad weather or a detour of any sort.

I can stop to charge if needs be, but I’ll be honest best and say it wouldn’t always be ideal for me.

Might not be as bad as you think. Supercharger (is there one in the vicinity you travel to?) will give you 60% (say 10% to 70%) charge in 30 minutes. On my car 10% = 22 miles-ish. Supercharger slows down a bit 70%-80%, quite a bit 80%-90% and is very slow 90%-100%, so try to arrive at Supercharger close to empty.

You plug in and then wait. Its not like pumping petrol where you stand there, and then queue to pay. So you could sit in car, or service station,and do Emails etc. If you have some work like that, as a Rep, then you might he doing that whilst charging, rather than having to do it when you get back to base, so may be as broad as it is long?

North wales, Crewe, Chester and Shrewsbury. Are there any superchargers in these areas?

Tesla has an up-to-date map on their website, you can zoom in to see what's available.

Supercharger | Tesla UK

There are also so called "Rapid Chargers" e.g. CHAdeMO, however they need an adaptor (£300-ish I think) and are only 50% of the speed of Supercharger. Next down is a Type-2 charger (you get a cable for that with a new car, not an old P85 but I expect you can blag one of those if you buy from Tesla) that's about 22-miles per hour charge speed, and then below that a 13 AMP plug which will give you 5 MPH.

Plugshare has good details about the various chargers around teh country, as does ZapMap

PlugShare
Map of charging points for electric car drivers in UK: Zap-Map

One thing to consider - you start each day with a full tank (from an overnight charge at home) and you only need to charge just enough to get back home, its a different mentality from filling-the-tank at a Petrol station. My stops to get home are often only 5-10 minutes, which adds 25-50 miles, which is only long enough to have a pee and grab a coffee

I heard batteries degrade over time, is there a particular way to check or a age/mileage of vehicle to avoid?

With Tesla it doesn't seem to be much of a problem because their batteries have active cooling/heating. However, that's not to say that a second hand car hasn't been abused. If the car is charged above 90% it should be driven "soon" after charging (I don't worry about a couple of hours ...) and also if it falls below 10% it should be charged on arrival, not left like that.

If you are buying from Tesla then I expect that their warranty would take care of it (I think that's 8 years unlimited mileage?), however you still don't want a duff battery if you are doing long trips, so perhaps you would want to see what the dashboard says the "Range" is when charged to 100% - that would tell you what the degradation has been on that car.

I think a second had 85 or 90 would come with the free Supercharging that the original car had (but you'd have to check that, might be different buying from Tesla / privately). If you are going to Supercharge twice a week, free, that will reduce your "fuel cost" of course

 

[WannabeOwner]

(In the wet dark winter days doing 75mph)

Would improve perhaps 8-10% if you dropped you speed to 70mph.

Seems to me that on a regular journey I hit Traffic or Roadworks and wind up doing 50 MPH for 15 - 30 minutes, and that makes a significant difference to my range, without me having to deliberately slow down.

Tesla has a "Trip Graph" that shows predicted energy consumption to destination (i.e. entered into SatNav), and you can see Actual against that, so if you are doing well (as is usually the case for me) you can press on a bit more.

 

[arg]

1- What sort of Range do people see in real world conditions? (In the wet dark winter days doing 75mph)
2- My working area is North wales, Crewe, Chester and Shrewsbury. Are there any superchargers in these areas?

There aren't any Superchargers actually in that area, nor likely to be, but then again there aren't any motorways there either, so I'm not sure where you would be doing 75mph.

If you end up on the M6 or M54, there are Superchargers at Keele and Telford, and there's one projected for the A55. These seem like the boundaries of your territory rather than the routes you'd be taking, but potentially useful to have them as a backup (much better to know you can get home safely with a detour than be stuck with no options at all).

In my 2014 S85, I'd be confident of doing 210 miles on a single charge as a single journey, especially on A roads, but in winter if your journey involves stops long enough for the car to cool down again then it's not going to be comfortable (a big part of the difference of winter over summer is the 'departure tax' to get the car warm after setting off).

However, it only needs a little bit of charging to get out of it - 10 minutes on a Supercharger on the way home (if you can contrive to pass one) can add 50-60 miles. 20 minutes on a CHAdeMO (several in that area) would add 40 miles. Or if a carpark you would have parked in anyhow happens to have a slow chargepoint, you can pick up a few miles at a slow chargepoint at no extra effort.

So your driving pattern is definitely feasible, but right on the borderline between being genuinely ICE-equivalently-comfortable (need a short charge away from home a few days a year vs how often do you fill up with petrol?) or slightly tedious (needing a charge stop two days a week during the winter). Maybe worth looking at a few weeks of your actual travel and seeing how you would have managed it in an EV.

Charging points and electric vehicles UK 2017 - Zap Map is probably the most useful map of public chargepoints.

3- I heard batteries degrade over time, is there a particular way to check or a age/mileage of vehicle to avoid?

It's usually not a problem, though obviously there might be the odd lemon out there.

There was a chemistry change between the original 60/85 cars and the later 75/90/100 cars; at the time it came in, there were reports that the newer cars seemed to degrade faster in the initial phase, but they seem to have levelled off since.

The 12V battery is a consumable item, and in early cars it's very tiresome to get at - you might want to check when/if it's been changed; could be an unfortunate expense if it fails just after the warranty expires.

 

[WannabeOwner]

if a carpark you would have parked in anyhow happens to have a slow chargepoint, you can pick up a few miles at a slow chargepoint at no extra effort.

Just a thought to add: in cold weather it would help to turn on Climate (from phone APP) 10 minutes before departure - so that you are using Shore power for that job, rather than Battery.

Can't help thinking that a 100 model is going to accommodate the journeys more easily, given limited charging opportunities. Not sure how much more range the 90 has than the 85 but might be worth checking that if looking for a used model. The "actuals" have varied quite a bit over the years - i.e. some models are a long way short of the advertised kWh, whereas others are much closer, so difference between 85 and 90 might be quite a bit more, or less even, than 5 kWh

it’s looking like the savings would be pretty big if I were to move to a Tesla

meant to mention earlier: are you in a position to charge Business Mileage for your car? If you are able to claim that at AA rates, per mile, as a tax-deductible item then I think you would be laughing ...
.

 

[JonG]

I think you need a 100D really. Stop start driving in winter will kill range, every stop let’s the battery cool down and as soon as you start driving you’ll have increased consumption. Driving those roads (I live in that area) is also not great for economy. I had a 90D and struggled to get over 200 miles with that type of driving and you don’t want to be thinking about it.

Couple of price points for you, home charging costs about 5p a mile. Charge at Ecotricity or one of the other rapids will be nearer 15p a mile. Check your company policy for what they’ll pay as the official AMR rate for electric cars is zero, some companies only pay that even for privately owned cars (you can still claim the balance up to 45p through your tax code). If you were going company car you get AMR and at best can reclaim receipted costs.

 

[WannabeOwner]

home charging costs about 5p a mile

That matches my day rate, but my E7 price is nearly half of that

 

[M4guy]

Thanks for the fantastic responses guys, greatly appreciated!

I’ll digest them over the next few days

I’ve booked a test drive with Tesla for this Saturday

Am I right in thinking the only the D models can be uncorked? As I’d quite like the added performance

 

[arcus]

I’ve booked a test drive with Tesla for this Saturday

You're in trouble!

Am I right in thinking the only the D models can be uncorked? As I’d quite like the added performance

It applied to RWD models too, but only produced after July (newer drive unit). Mine was built in March, unfortunately. Either way, I find the acceleration more than adequate (I had IS F Sport before) and the comments like "holy sh.." from the passengers seem to confirm nothing is amiss

Good luck with your purchase!

 

[Penfold]

If your looking at the Telsa Used Inventory then don't rely on the 0-60 seconds that they specify. They sometimes (not always) put higher than it actually is to cover themselves so its worth contacting them directly when you see the car(s) you like and then ask for some specifics.

Also, as you'll read, the packages changed quite a bit although they have tended to combine them more lately its still worth checking what it has actually got to ensure you get what you want.

 

[gjunky]

Thanks for the fantastic responses guys, greatly appreciated!

I’ll digest them over the next few days

I’ve booked a test drive with Tesla for this Saturday

Am I right in thinking the only the D models can be uncorked? As I’d quite like the added performance

You won't care about any of your previous questions anymore after the test drive....

 

[JonG]

Uncorking is on the 75Ds, the 75s may come later, there’s no guarantee on an older car that it can be done but most seem to. 100Ds are also thought to be suitable for uncorking to but still early days in that on and they’re already around 4s to 60. I worry a 75 will have the range you need from your earlier comments about where you drive.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Am I right in thinking the only the D models can be uncorked? As I’d quite like the added performance

Newer deliveries already had that as standard. Can't remember what the cutoff date was.

Only applies to the 75 though, and I very much doubt that has the range that you need, so perhaps? you are more likely looking for a used 85 or 90 (or better still a 100) to get enough Range.

(Or you have figured out a suitable charging option at destination, or en route)

100Ds are also thought to be suitable for uncorking to but still early days in that on and they’re already around 4s to 60. I worry a 75 will have the range you need from your earlier comments about where you drive.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[M4guy]

Thanks so much guys, so still taking all this in! Got my first test drive in a Tesla tomorrow

I’m currently trying to work out which is the best model to go for with my budget (£50k max really) I’d obviously like it as fast as possible with a decent range (200miles minimum) and ideally I’d go for the D with AWD. I’d also like the availability to uncork it too as I’d really want around 4 secs 0-60mph.

Sadly I feel the Car I want isn’t going to available at my budget point

 

[M4guy]

Newer deliveries already had that as standard. Can't remember what the cutoff date was.

Only applies to the 75 though, and I very much doubt that has the range that you need, so perhaps? you are more likely looking for a used 85 or 90 (or better still a 100) to get enough Range.

(Or you have figured out a suitable charging option at destination, or en route)



Interesting, thanks.

Sadly I think those are out of my budget

Maybe I’ll have to just go for a early 85 rwd

 

[Penfold]

What about this, a bit over and no autopilot but assume in these models the hardware would exist so could be enabled if required?

85 kWh Performance Model S 5YJSB7H43FF090192 | Tesla UK

 

[Penfold]

Should get 5 year battery and motor warranty and the 2 year pre-owned warranty oh and it does have autopilot 1 and free supercharging, damn could have had that myself

 

[WannabeOwner]

What about this,

If O/P wants ultimate range I recommend not getting a P model ...

I reckon a regular MS is going to get the O/P to work on time anyway

 

[Penfold]

If O/P wants ultimate range I recommend not getting a P model ...

I reckon a regular MS is going to get the O/P to work on time anyway

lol, true but surely with the P you can drive sensibly too....or at least the option is there how ever difficult that might be