Power Conversion System (PCS) failure

[stopcrazypp]

Not being able to AC charge is nothing like a blowout on the highway.
You can still supercharge / DCFC with the PCS failed, so it just becomes a hassle if all 3 fail. Given most people have only had one fail even after taking months to notice, the chance of the next 2 failing at the same time is super low. The most likely outcome is being stuck at 16A. When one of mine failed, the other two were fine for the next 8+ months before I got it repaired.

But I would also take Tesla to small claims over not covering it under warranty.

Waiting might also increase the chances of getting a newer replacement unit. But whether that is an advantage depends on what is the common cause of failure (is it just a blown fuse, I see a ton on the board, is it a failed capacitor, or is it some other component).

 

[gearchruncher]

Yeah and in order to take Tesla to small claims, you need to show that you were harmed. And to do that, you need to get those units replaced and save the invoice. Also, I would think that the sooner after the warranty expires, the better, as far as your chances at prevailing in small claims court.

Tesla covers this under the 4 year B2B warranty, but not the 8 year "battery" warranty. The complaint would be that this should be covered as part of the battery, given it's inside the battery, it comes if you buy a battery, and Tesla claims the battery warranty is void if you replace it yourself.

But I do agree that you need to show harm. However, the failure itself is that harm. The value and usefulness of the car is reduced, and Tesla won't restore it under the battery warranty. An invoice showing what tesla would charge to repair it is sufficient to define the monetary harm. The court forcing the repair to occur would be specific performance, which small claims cannot do.

Kind of like if someone dents your car, you can go after them for what it would cost to repair it, but it doesn't mean you are required to repair it to recover damages.

 

[gearchruncher]

is it just a blown fuse

Fuses don't blow for no reason, and the inverter has 40A fuses on 16A charge paths, so that's a huge overcurrent:

Fuses and Current Protection – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

 

[stopcrazypp]

Fuses don't blow for no reason, and the inverter has 40A fuses on 16A charge paths, so that's a huge overcurrent:

Fuses and Current Protection – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

Not saying it won't be another upstream issue that blew the fuse, just saying could it be the broken PCS can be repaired just by replacing the fuse(s)? Maybe someone that had been following the issue for a while have a better idea what exact component failed.

 

[davewill]

Not saying it won't be another upstream issue that blew the fuse, just saying could it be the broken PCS can be repaired just by replacing the fuse(s)? Maybe someone that had been following the issue for a while have a better idea what exact component failed.

I've been mildly surprised that no one has come up with a component repair for this. Seems like there would be an opportunity to offer rebuilds or a repair service that undercuts the Tesla repair price.

 

[Vol16]

Tesla covers this under the 4 year B2B warranty, but not the 8 year "battery" warranty. The complaint would be that this should be covered as part of the battery, given it's inside the battery, it comes if you buy a battery, and Tesla claims the battery warranty is void if you replace it yourself.

But I do agree that you need to show harm. However, the failure itself is that harm. The value and usefulness of the car is reduced, and Tesla won't restore it under the battery warranty. An invoice showing what tesla would charge to repair it is sufficient to define the monetary harm. The court forcing the repair to occur would be specific performance, which small claims cannot do.

Kind of like if someone dents your car, you can go after them for what it would cost to repair it, but it doesn't mean you are required to repair it to recover damages.

I successfully argued with my service center that it should be covered under the battery warranty, as they consider the “penthouse” as part of the battery assembly and it is replaced when a full battery replacement is ordered. This is highly YMMV, but it worked for me after my 4YR B2B had expired.

 

[gearchruncher]

I've been mildly surprised that no one has come up with a component repair for this. Seems like there would be an opportunity to offer rebuilds or a repair service that undercuts the Tesla repair price.

It appears that there was only a narrow set of cars with a high failure case here, and the reality is that the vast majority of Model 3's are still under the 4 year warranty. Plus, most people won't take on this labor themselves, given the high voltage exposure and claims from Tesla that opening the penthouse voids the whole battery warranty (to replace something that isn't part of the battery!)

If Tesla will repair it for $1800 with a brand new PCS, I'd think you'd need to sell a refurbished PCS for under $500 with some kind of warranty that the other channels wouldn't fail, and that's a tricky business to run. It does partially depend on what the failure is. It's a shame that nobody has managed to keep the failed PCS so far and look into what failed.

 

[MP3Mike]

I successfully argued with my service center that it should be covered under the battery warranty, as they consider the “penthouse” as part of the battery assembly and it is replaced when a full battery replacement is ordered. This is highly YMMV, but it worked for me after my 4YR B2B had expired.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to see a copy of your service invoice, to show their service centers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm sure a lot of people would like to see a copy of your service invoice, to show their service centers.

I would caution not to expect that to necessarily change anything as SCs don't take other invoices as precedent, even if you show them one that says warranty vs goodwill (I remember this from other issues, I believe it was the repeater cam).

 

[Vol16]

I would caution not to expect that to necessarily change anything as SCs don't take other invoices as precedent, even if you show them one that says warranty vs goodwill (I remember this from other issues, I believe it was the repeater cam).

I agree. Happy to send to anyone who needs it a copy of mine, but I wouldn’t expect it to be a silver bullet that means you would get it free as well.

When I went to pick up my car, I brought coffee and donuts for the entire service team. Why? Because I admit is sort of a gray area, but in the end they sided with my logic after a respectful discussion.

This was also during a time where I really didn’t want to bring my car into service unless absolutely necessary, because my SC was so overloaded they had to open on Sunday’s until SC’s opened in nearby cities. This was during the Model Y ramp.

 

[TheCaptain67]

Add another early Model 3 to the list (April 2018 with 38K miles).

Upgraded my EVSE from a 32A to a 40A model but charging rate stayed at 30MPH.

Service mode confirmed pcs a013 error.

Am going to return the 40A EVSE and continue to use the 32A EVSE. Once the 2nd PCS module dies, I will get Tesla to repair and file for arbitration.

 

[davewill]

Add another early Model 3 to the list (April 2018 with 38K miles).

Upgraded my EVSE from a 32V to a 40V model but charging rate stayed at 30MPH.

Service mode confirmed pcs a013 error.

Am going to return the 40A EVSE and continue to use the 32V EVSE. Once the 2nd PCS module dies, I will get Tesla to repair and file for arbitration.

You don't have to do the repair to file for arbitration, just request it be repaired under warranty and be denied. I would think that the closer to the basic warranty you are, the better your chances, both for arbitration and for a goodwill repair. Do you have any evidence that the problem started during the base warranty or would you try to argue it should be covered under the battery warranty?

P.S. Those are 32A and 40A EVSEs, not 32V and 40V.

 

[TheCaptain67]

You don't have to do the repair to file for arbitration, just request it be repaired under warranty and be denied. I would think that the closer to the basic warranty you are, the better your chances, both for arbitration and for a goodwill repair. Do you have any evidence that the problem started during the base warranty or would you try to argue it should be covered under the battery warranty?

P.S. Those are 32A and 40A EVSEs, not 32V and 40V.

All my charging was done either with my 32A EVSE or Supercharging, so I have no evidence or idea how long the first PCS module has been dead unfortunately. Obviously only warranty I have is left HV battery.

Corrected my incorrect EVSE labels.

 

[rrolsbe]

Since the PCS board performs at least two additional functions topping off the LV battery and precharging the HV buss, has anyone received Tesla warranty coverage for failures of these functions under the 8 year/100K/120K mile warranty?

 

[Vines]

As a data point, my 2018 lasted 141k miles with no PCS failures. About 80% of my charging was at 48A

 

[gearchruncher]

All my charging was done either with my 32A EVSE or Supercharging, so I have no evidence or idea how long the first PCS module has been dead unfortunately. Obviously only warranty I have is left HV battery.

@davewill is completely right- you have already lost functionality. That's damages already. Get Tesla to deny a free repair under the battery warranty, get an out of pocket quote, and then move to small claims.

Your statement above is an excellent argument to make in court. Tesla knows when a module has failed. Yet despite showing most errors to the owner, they do not show you this error. They don't even show it to you when you plug into a 32A+ source and limit you to 32A. It doesn't look good to a court that Tesla was trying to hide this failure from the user hoping they won't notice it until they can claim it happened out of warranty.

This from a company that will tell you they think the car is slightly out of alignment or one tire is more worn than another.

 

[Vines]

As a data point, my 2018 lasted 141k miles with no PCS failures. About 80% of my charging was at 48A

Correction 120k Miles

 

[captaincurt]

It appears that there was only a narrow set of cars with a high failure case here, and the reality is that the vast majority of Model 3's are still under the 4 year warranty. Plus, most people won't take on this labor themselves, given the high voltage exposure and claims from Tesla that opening the penthouse voids the whole battery warranty (to replace something that isn't part of the battery!)

If Tesla will repair it for $1800 with a brand new PCS, I'd think you'd need to sell a refurbished PCS for under $500 with some kind of warranty that the other channels wouldn't fail, and that's a tricky business to run. It does partially depend on what the failure is. It's a shame that nobody has managed to keep the failed PCS so far and look into what failed.

My 2018 MR model 3 is in the shop now. I asked for the damaged PCS back. I was told Tesla can not return a HV part to the owner.

I’m in NY. I thought NYS consumer protection law prohibited repair centers from holding removed motor vehicle parts, but I assume that law may not have anticipated HV electric component safety issues.

I wonder how the ones I see on eBay got theirs back. I assume that they’re from wrecks.

It’s costing $1800 + tax to fix it. I’m disappointed, as we all are. Love the Model 3 still, but not happy with Tesla. My was manufactured in August of 2018 when the bulletin said there were mfg. issues with the PCS. Service rep. Said bad batch wasn’t in my car. There seems to be a good amount of these failures.

 

[rrolsbe]

My 2018 MR model 3 is in the shop now. I asked for the damaged PCS back. I was told Tesla can not return a HV part to the owner.

I’m in NY. I thought NYS consumer protection law prohibited repair centers from holding removed motor vehicle parts, but I assume that law may not have anticipated HV electric component safety issues.

I wonder how the ones I see on eBay got theirs back. I assume that they’re from wrecks.

It’s costing $1800 + tax to fix it. I’m disappointed, as we all are. Love the Model 3 still, but not happy with Tesla. My was manufactured in August of 2018 when the bulletin said there were mfg. issues with the PCS. Service rep. Said bad batch wasn’t in my car. There seems to be a good amount of these failures.

Unless there is a core charge on the work statement, there is no reason why they should refuse to give you the part (unless they have something to hide). The part is NOT dangerous in any way when it is not installed in the car. I have previously suggested that this expensive board should be repaired (if possible) instead of discarded/recycled. Maybe Tesla is refurbishing these boards and not being forthright? The car that replaced our Model 3 was a VW diesel that had many failures of the fuel pump after the warranty ran out. The repair was VERY expensive and VW did not cover it under warranty; however, if you requested the failed part they would usually cover the repair at no cost. They simply did not want anyone to find out it was poorly engineered. VW eventually had to take responsibly for the badly designed fuel pump and reimburse owners previously charged for the repair. This took several years so maybe there is still hope for Tesla owners that payed for this repair.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My 2018 MR model 3 is in the shop now. I asked for the damaged PCS back. I was told Tesla can not return a HV part to the owner.

I’m in NY. I thought NYS consumer protection law prohibited repair centers from holding removed motor vehicle parts, but I assume that law may not have anticipated HV electric component safety issues.

I wonder how the ones I see on eBay got theirs back. I assume that they’re from wrecks.

It’s costing $1800 + tax to fix it. I’m disappointed, as we all are. Love the Model 3 still, but not happy with Tesla. My was manufactured in August of 2018 when the bulletin said there were mfg. issues with the PCS. Service rep. Said bad batch wasn’t in my car. There seems to be a good amount of these failures.

From the 50 state auto repair law guide, NY has an exception for hazardous parts, plus it seems that for certain parts they only need to let you inspect it (not necessarily let you keep it):
"Parts Return Repair facilities must keep replaced parts for customer inspection. Customers may retain the parts if they so desire, unless the specific manufacturer requires that the part be returned or if the part is hazardous to the environment. If the customer desires removed parts that involve a core, the customer will be responsible for the core charge. A repair facility is not required to keep parts if disposal or special handling is required by law or after the vehicle has been released to the customer. NMAC § 12.2.6.12(B)"
Arbitration decision of my PCS dispute

N.M. Code R. § 12.2.6.12 - PARTS