Power Steering falling apart

[scottm]

Article in today's paper about Bosch making parts (they show a steering rack) that will enable self-driving cars, where the manual inputs are deemed "redundant" and primary motor driven inputs are the normal. A "no pedals" and "no steering wheel" car. Sounds great in concept but now we're finding out the Achilles heel ... what if those parts are prone to ... falling off?

Some of these failing power steering motor (bolts) in this thread are on cars with autopilot, AP1..

Anybody had a power steering motor fall off while the car is in AP mode? Anybody want to think about that happening on a curve?

If Tesla does a recall it should probably be for AP equipped cars first... I'll wait in line a bit to get mine.

 

[AWDtsla]

Might try using these rather than “ lock washers” and or locktight

Nord-lock

If salt solution in your environment is causing the problem in the first place, you really don't need to improve the locking solution, it will do that itself. If anything copious amounts of antisieze if you ever want to be able to remove it again, and it still may not come out in one piece.

 

[AWDtsla]

Article in today's paper about Bosch making parts (they show a steering rack) that will enable self-driving cars, where the manual inputs are deemed "redundant" and primary motor driven inputs are the normal. A "no pedals" and "no steering wheel" car. Sounds great in concept but now we're finding out the Achilles heel ... what if those parts are prone to ... falling off?

Some of these failing power steering motor (bolts) in this thread are on cars with autopilot, AP1..

I doubt legal "FSD" will get away with less than triple redundancy.

Anybody had a power steering motor fall off while the car is in AP mode? Anybody want to think about that happening on a curve?

Death, likely. Even if your "hands are on the wheel" it would require a lot of strength to steer given the weight of the car.

 

[mattack4000]

Wtf are you talking about. The faster you are moving, the easier it is to turn the wheel.

 

[AWDtsla]

Wtf are you talking about. The faster you are moving, the easier it is to turn the wheel.

Because you're covering more ground while turning it the same amount.

 

[mattack4000]

Because you're covering more ground while turning it the same amount.

Friction and inertia....

 

[JRP3]

I've driven a number of power steering vehicles with broken power steering. Definitely easier at speed. Basically once you get out of a parking lot it's not that bad.

 

[P-town_P85]

Jrp3, having my steering just quit last week I can tell you this is the WORST car, truck I’ve ever driven when it’s power steering quit. I’ve driven 1940s era military trucks, 60’s era cars, even a Pontiac Bonneville that lost its power steering. My 2013 S without power steering was the worst, just plain horrendous, even at 20+ mph.

 

[brkaus]

Does the large gas/diesel heated block of metal in an ICE car reduce the corrosion?

 

[mongo]

Does the large gas/diesel heated block of metal in an ICE car reduce the corrosion?

The oil leaks do. I suppose the heat helps remove the moisture so you have salt instead of electrolyte.

 

[CalBlue 85D]

I wonder if @JonMc is aware of this thread and the safety issue?

 

[zax123]

I wonder if @JonMc is aware of this thread and the safety issue?

My intention is to bring it to his attention if Tesla doesn't issue a recall for it.

 

[JRP3]

My 2013 S without power steering was the worst, just plain horrendous, even at 20+ mph.

I defer to your first hand experience.

 

[SportsmanFlyer]

I defer to your first hand experience.

Reported my steering to Transport Canada and it is being replaced today, hopefully everyone reports this issue. It is defiantly a safety issue. I really like the car but this needs to have the bolts changed on all cars with a few years use and over 100,000km. It is a very simple fix, if you get them changed before they break.

 

[mrElbe]

Does the large gas/diesel heated block of metal in an ICE car reduce the corrosion?

Definitely not. The 2015 Ford recall of 480,000 ICE vehicles addressed exactly the same bolt failure problem.

 

[Jeeps17]

My intention is to bring it to his attention if Tesla doesn't issue a recall for it.

I think that is a great idea, but would not necessarily wait for a recall (or lack thereof) to inform him, if you were planning to do so.

Call it prophylactic information sharing up the corporate ladder.

 

[Duckjybe]

Although upon inspection my steering bolts looked absolutely fine, based on all the excellent info in this thread I went ahead and replaced them anyway with SS M8-1.25 70mm long hex bolts with washers and lock washers. I did them one at a time so did not remove motor so do not know the full state of the mating surface. The full thread aluminum bolts however had two narrow lines of white powder where they went through two mating surfaces. They came out fine and I torqued the new ones to 16 ft-lbs. I then coated the area in Fluid Film. I have 170,000 km or 106,000 miles on my Feb 2013 P85 which has been driven on salty winter roads.

 

[zax123]

Although upon inspection my steering bolts looked absolutely fine, based on all the excellent info in this thread I went ahead and replaced them anyway with SS M8-1.25 70mm long hex bolts with washers and lock washers. I did them one at a time so did not remove motor so do not know the full state of the mating surface. The full thread aluminum bolts however had two narrow lines of white powder where they went through two mating surfaces. They came out fine and I torqued the new ones to 16 ft-lbs. I then coated the area in Fluid Film. I have 170,000 km or 106,000 miles on my Feb 2013 P85 which has been driven on salty winter roads.

Hey Duck,

What is fluid film? You just spray it everywhere?

 

[mrElbe]

Duck, sounds like you caught it just in time.
Zax, Fluid Film is a Lanolin based creepy oil product in a spray can. CDN Tire carries it. Spray it on all the aluminum parts you can find in there. Try to avoid any rubber hoses.

 

[Hornedfrog1]

No IC message. Just a stiff/loose pattern when turning the wheel while driving at low speeds. Reset the car, and it still behaved that way. Called roadside assistance and had it towed. During some part of the process, the fact that a gear was stripped was mentioned, but we didn't get any more details. So it's possible it wasn't the same failure mode, which is why I wish I had asked more questions in hindsight.

Now I’m even more concerned about what I’ve noticed with mine. Three or four times, on surface streets, when I’ve been in a left handed curve with constant pressure on the wheel (wheel set to sport mode) the steering wheel will suddenly, without warning, go slack and my hand dips about ten degrees to the left. When I turn the wheel to its original position, the stiffness in the wheel comes back. Is this the kind of sensation you experienced?

When we were recently heading across a bridge at highway speed, on Autopilot, the AP suddenly made an abrupt movement to the left like it was trying to avoid something. I immediately took over and righted it back to the center of the lane. it was enough of a movement that my kids from the back seat asked what happened and one of them reminded me that I even addressed the car saying, “whoa Lola! What are you doing?” My SVC is looking into the logs on this and a ton Of other problems I’m having. I’m wondering, since it was in the same direction as the slack wheel feelings, if it’s not related. Could have been an anomaly.