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Powerwall 2.0 differences?

Discussion in 'Tesla Energy' started by electracity, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    I assume that Powerwall 2.0 will be made with larger gigafactory cells by a new automated process. But how will it be different for the end user? Price?
     
  2. TheJMan

    TheJMan Member

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    Most likely a price drop or same price but with higher performance or capacity.
    They will also be compatible with more companies devices like inverters.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    No one outside of Tesla knows yet.
     
  4. Aussie

    Aussie Member

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    According to my sources it will not be made with any Giga Factory cells but will use Samsung cells inside. Also it will be an all in one unit, so including an inverter inside the unit. Elon Musk made an announcement a while ago that they will make an inverter for the Powerwall. It just remains to be seen if the inverter in PW 2.0 is already a Tesla self developed one or if they buy this from a 3rd party. And if they buy from a third party my bet would be on Fronius.

    End user differences should include a higher cycle life and a higher price for the unit, however a lower price for the overall install.
     
  5. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    That's interesting. I'm not sure why they would put the inverter inside the unit. The inverter is sized to the panels, and also makes heat.
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Tesla has a great deal of expertise in making inverters for vehicles which likely would be transferable to making inverters for solar systems. I expect them to produce a PV inverter inhouse.
    Clearly the Powerwall enclosure will have to change if an inverter is included. Having the storage batteries and inverter inside one enclosure will reduce installation costs. My Powerwall / solar installation looks rather Rube Goldbergish and took a lot of labor time to layout and connect up.

    IMG_2053.JPG
     
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  7. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Of all the conduits in that picture, the only ones that are truly necessary for an integrated system are:
    - HVDC from solar string(s)
    - AC power to/from main panel
    - AC power to critical loads panel

    A standalone HPWC like the one shown also needs its own conduit from the main panel.
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Just a clarification: in the photo I posted of my system the main panel is not shown, it is just off to the right of the image. The grey box at the upper side is the critical loads subpanel. The smaller grey box on the right side is the PV system disconnect switch.

    I am hoping that for the Powerwall V2 design Tesla can figure out a way to integrate the 4 SolarEdge boxes shown in the photo inside the Powerwall enclosure.
     
  9. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    One of the "extraneous" boxes shown above is an auto-transformer. This is only necessary because the inverter is designed for pure 240V split phase operation and can't provide an islanded neutral without that extra transformer. Normally, in grid interactive mode it's not a problem because the utility transformer does that job. Other inverters that are designed for off-grid 120/240V operation don't need the external transformer, but the inverter is probably more expensive because it's either actually two inverters 180 degrees out of phase, or they have the transformer integrated inside.

    BTW, what is the white box with the red trapezoid in the lower right of the picture? There are no labels on the conduit going to it from the inverter.
     
  10. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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  11. Aussie

    Aussie Member

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    I agree (and I am happy we are agreeing on something for a change). The question is more timing. A hybrid PV inverter is a tricky thing. Especially one which needs 2 or more MPP trackers. So can Tesla do it? Of course. Can they do it quickly enough? Not sure, we will see.

    The other thing which should improve in the Powerwall 2.0 with the Samsung cells is power. The only way how Tesla is getting the Panasonics to something which looks like a reasonable lifetime is by using very low C rates for most of the time. With Samsung they should be able to get a bit more power out of the units maybe going up to .75C.
    When Powerwall 1.0 was announced it came with a peak power of 3.3KW. People complained that this was way too low for such a large battery so Elon said it would be 7KW peak. However that didn't actually happen, the current speck sheet shows 3.3KW. If they can get .75C out of the Samsung they would be able to get 5.25KW out of a 7kWh battery block.
     
  12. Utahken

    Utahken Member

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    It is the box that houses the consumption meter.
     
  13. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Based on the powerpack news, powerwall 2.0 might be considerably smaller.
     
  14. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    It doesn't look smaller on this leaked image from reddit: [​IMG]
     
  15. outie

    outie Member

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    I currently have a simple PV system with no battery storage. It has a SolarEdge inverter. With the new power wall with integrated inverter does it mean my solar array will just connect directly to the power wall and the existing solaredge inverter will be ditched?
     
  16. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Standard rail height is about 36". So that is maybe 3.5'?
     
  17. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    There still needs to be a solar inverter that also acts as a charge controller. We don't know how Tesla will handle these components.

    I'm not sure that it makes sense to put the inverter in the box with batteries. A big factor in reducing powerwall size is probably thermal management.
     
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  18. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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  19. mhan00

    mhan00 Member

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    Integrated inverter? Double the capacity? Nice. I already have a solar system though. I wonder if this can be plug and play with existing systems? I doubt it, but hope springs eternal.
     
  20. spentan

    spentan Active Member

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    I just placed my order for 4 Powerwall 2.0s, I currently have a pretty beefy solar system (35x360w Sunpower panels with a SolarEdge 14600A inverter). I'm hoping that it'll work with that, otherwise will be cancelling my order.

    (Have a Model X P90D, a P85 and a 500E as well as a 5bdr house), so 4 Powerwalls seems enough
     
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