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Powerwall 2 in Florida

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Urban Solar Group told me they can give me a quote for LG RESU system. I'm really tempted to go with the LG RESU mainly because of its efficiency and good things I read about it, but the price tag is higher:

Here's How LG's Solar Battery Stands Up To the Powerwall

There are some factual inaccuracies about that article related to the PW2.

Depth of discharge is not 100%. The PW may say it has hit 0% on your app monitoring, but there is an inaccessible reserve that the wall keeps. I've seen this firsthand and it can be monitored on the PW website if you access the IP directly.

Also, it is a bit deceptive how they comment that the LG is a smaller form factor, but requires an external inverter (facepalm). Apples to apples please.



EDIT - and that 95% efficiency, is that ROUND TRIP? I.e. AC (solar, in my case microinverters) --> DC Powerwall Storage --> AC discharge. That's exceptionally high for a round trip. This website says "greater than 90%" - LG Chem RESU 9.8 kWh Lithium Ion Solar Battery Backup Solar Battery Something like 92% would be exceptional for roundtrip.

EDIT 2 - I found it!!!
http://solarjuice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/160712_New-RESU-leaflet_Global-small.pdf
That is a 95% DC roundtrip efficiency, not AC to DC to AC like the powerwall. Not an apples to apples comparison at all. Add in that final inverter to get the DC current back to usable AC, and the LG and PW2 are likely a wash at around 90%.
 
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There are some factual inaccuracies about that article related to the PW2.

Depth of discharge is not 100%. The PW may say it has hit 0% on your app monitoring, but there is an inaccessible reserve that the wall keeps. I've seen this firsthand and it can be monitored on the PW website if you access the IP directly.

Also, it is a bit deceptive how they comment that the LG is a smaller form factor, but requires an external inverter (facepalm). Apples to apples please.



EDIT - and that 95% efficiency, is that ROUND TRIP? I.e. AC (solar, in my case microinverters) --> DC Powerwall Storage --> AC discharge. That's exceptionally high for a round trip. This website says "greater than 90%" - LG Chem RESU 9.8 kWh Lithium Ion Solar Battery Backup Solar Battery Something like 92% would be exceptional for roundtrip.

EDIT 2 - I found it!!!
http://solarjuice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/160712_New-RESU-leaflet_Global-small.pdf
That is a 95% DC roundtrip efficiency, not AC to DC to AC like the powerwall. Not an apples to apples comparison at all. Add in that final inverter to get the DC current back to usable AC, and the LG and PW2 are likely a wash at around 90%.
It was an interesting comparison but they didn't include one of the most important things: price!

I'm betting that company sells both but makes more selling the LG Chem RESU units.
 
Yes, the LG has disadvantage of being high price, but I think LG seems to be consistent/reliable.

Tesla seems to be all over the place and keep missing deadline, and now Elon Musk want to make candy? So reserve your candy now but get it next year?

Anyway, read the discussion here, LG seems to have better reputation, is this one of that "you get what you paid for" kind of situation?

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2695638

I don't know how much app problem the PW2 has, I know a couple months ago in this forum, people still complain about the Tesla PW2 app not 100%.
 
The only advantage I see for the LG battery is that you can get it in a predictable time frame. The only other advantage is that the low voltage packs can be used with Hybrid Inverters (Schneider XW, Outback Radian, SMA SunnyIsland) in situations where that is absolutely necessary - like having good generator support.
 
Voicing concern is not spreading FUD, it's a legit discussion. Did you read the forum in whirlpool?

Nope, was replying specifically to these pieces of FUD:

"... but I think LG seems to be consistent/reliable" - implication that the PWs are not.

"Tesla seems to be all over the place and keep missing deadline, and now Elon Musk want to make candy? So reserve your candy now but get it next year?" - more negative implications. The only major delay was when the hurricanes hit Puerto Rico and PW shipments were all delayed because production was shipped there.

"...LG seems to have better reputation.." - I see no factual information that could lead one to that conclusion.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2695638

"I don't know how much app problem the PW2 has, I know a couple months ago in this forum, people still complain about the Tesla PW2 app not 100%." - the only major complaint people have about the app is that it does not allow for Time of Use Shifting (not yet for everyone, anyway). Aside from this "advanced" feature, I have not seen any complaints about the app.
 
If you want to look for something to complain about, changing modes (Backup / Self Powered / Advanced) or Reserve amount only takes effect once per hour. By watching the behavior, I figured out that mine takes effect around 30 minutes past the hour.
 
"I don't know how much app problem the PW2 has, I know a couple months ago in this forum, people still complain about the Tesla PW2 app not 100%." - the only major complaint people have about the app is that it does not allow for Time of Use Shifting (not yet for everyone, anyway). Aside from this "advanced" feature, I have not seen any complaints about the app.

The Tesla app wasn't working at all for a day or two recently, I believe, but I'm not sure if that's what he's referring to.
 
Right, it was the entire app including PW. I don't know about an LG app.

I'm not making a value judgment on the validity of the complaints, just guessing about what the recent app complaints could have been.

Sure, absolutely. The PW was not "non functional" during the app outage. You just could not make changes from the app, etc. You could still go through a web interface (if you know your local IP it is running on).
 
This is one of the comment I read in the Whirlpool forum:

"i have installed a lot of PW2 and RESU systems. im also a tesla shareholder. i put the RESU 7H with SE 5000 RWS inverter on my own house. hasnt missed a beat in 4 months. the passive cooling design is part of the LG units strength. lots of problems with PW2 that are ongoing in many systems i have installed. PW1 REV-E was getting very solid. if you can get hold of 2 of those cheaply i would recommend them over PW2 at this point which is still very much a beta product. as for comms."

As for PW2 delay, it's more than Puerto Rico. Here is my experience:
- Reserved PW2 on Feb 2017
- August 2017, received email saying PW2 installation will begin in the South Florida Market in 3 months (read that the PW2 production caught up after the whole Australia bet thing is over).
- September 2017, Hurricane Irma hit, lost power and can't use my PV, Tesla go to Puerto Rico
- December 2017, called Tesla, was told PW2 installation is coming to South Florida in 3 months (I called to see if the email I received in August is still stand).
- Feb 2018, called Tesla, was told need a couple more months, Tesla employee see that my reservation is more than 1 year old, told me I probably would be 1 of the few who would get it as soon as it's available in the area
- late April 2018, called Tesla twice, first time was told no installer in the area (my PV installer has been certified since December). The second time I call the Tesla employee told me all the batteries goes to Model 3, PW2 may be available 4-6 months?

I gave my PW2 reservation number to my PV installer, have him contact the Tesla channel where he had his employee get certify, this is the response he has for me:
"my contact is not giving me any specific dates or other info at this time."

This, my friend, is UNCERTAINTY.

Also, I started this discussion for Florida so that we can track the status of PW2 in the state of Florida, it's interesting to see user from California praising their experience, clearly they don't go through what we go through because the PW2 is already available to them very early. Service quality changed over time and certainly different from location to location. We don't have Solar City employees in South Florida, so we are not being service like the rest of the country. I guess the Sunshine State doesn't get the love......
 
This is one of the comment I read in the Whirlpool forum:

"i have installed a lot of PW2 and RESU systems. im also a tesla shareholder. i put the RESU 7H with SE 5000 RWS inverter on my own house. hasnt missed a beat in 4 months. the passive cooling design is part of the LG units strength. lots of problems with PW2 that are ongoing in many systems i have installed. PW1 REV-E was getting very solid. if you can get hold of 2 of those cheaply i would recommend them over PW2 at this point which is still very much a beta product. as for comms."

As for PW2 delay, it's more than Puerto Rico. Here is my experience:
- Reserved PW2 on Feb 2017
- August 2017, received email saying PW2 installation will begin in the South Florida Market in 3 months (read that the PW2 production caught up after the whole Australia bet thing is over).
- September 2017, Hurricane Irma hit, lost power and can't use my PV, Tesla go to Puerto Rico
- December 2017, called Tesla, was told PW2 installation is coming to South Florida in 3 months (I called to see if the email I received in August is still stand).
- Feb 2018, called Tesla, was told need a couple more months, Tesla employee see that my reservation is more than 1 year old, told me I probably would be 1 of the few who would get it as soon as it's available in the area
- late April 2018, called Tesla twice, first time was told no installer in the area (my PV installer has been certified since December). The second time I call the Tesla employee told me all the batteries goes to Model 3, PW2 may be available 4-6 months?

I gave my PW2 reservation number to my PV installer, have him contact the Tesla channel where he had his employee get certify, this is the response he has for me:
"my contact is not giving me any specific dates or other info at this time."

This, my friend, is UNCERTAINTY.

Also, I started this discussion for Florida so that we can track the status of PW2 in the state of Florida, it's interesting to see user from California praising their experience, clearly they don't go through what we go through because the PW2 is already available to them very early. Service quality changed over time and certainly different from location to location. We don't have Solar City employees in South Florida, so we are not being service like the rest of the country. I guess the Sunshine State doesn't get the love......


You want a RESU, get a RESU, no one is stopping you. However I smell a bit more FUD here: if there were cooling problems there are enough forum users here that would be ALL OVER that and you would see reports. I have yet to see the first report about cooling problems. I have MAXED the discharge rate out from my 3 PWs for hours, and I can never hear the fan in them unless I literally get right up next to them and put my ear up there.

Also, I would ask the guy selling you stuff what his commission on the RESU is. Tesla doesn't do commissions, at all, and that's probably why he's pushing the RESU, flat out he makes more money (commission + install labor, vs. labor alone on the PW2).


Additionally, the PW2 is shipping with Tesla's Gigafactory 2170 cells inside (Tesla Powerwall 2 Now Shipping With 2170 Gigafactory Batteries Inside). Unbiased, 3rd party outsiders have described those as the best Li Ion volume produced batteries in the world, bar none (look on YouTube for the Monroe and Associates teardown of the Model 3, they teardown the battery pack and compare it to other manuf's batteries they have seen - and these guys are FAR from Tesla fans, they have little to say good about the Model 3 fit and finish). That alone, for me, is worth the wait.

I'm not saying the RESU is BAD, I'm saying a lot of what I hear you repeating has a distinct "smell" of bias to it. I cannot personally make a RESU to PW2 comparison, as I don't have a RESU, however some of the things you have already mentioned (round trip efficiency) we've already debunked as factually incorrect.
 
Sure, absolutely. The PW was not "non functional" during the app outage. You just could not make changes from the app, etc. You could still go through a web interface (if you know your local IP it is running on).

Right. The chances of many people NEEDING to make changes to their PW storage % during the downtime is pretty small, so it probably didn't significantly affect more than a handful of PWs.

Perhaps it was a different complaint, however.
 
We don't have Solar City employees in South Florida, so we are not being service like the rest of the country. I guess the Sunshine State doesn't get the love......

Really? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I live in Tampa and my salesman works for Tesla direct and so did the guy who came to do the site survey.

Is it different in South Florida or am I misinterpreting your comment?
 
@3laine Tampa and Orlando has Tesla employee/installer very early on. When I talk to Tesla employee on the phone, they told me no one can do PW2 installation in South FL, and they get people calling them a lot, even from people representing celebrities. And he told me all he can do is tell the people to make reservation online, and wait for email notification.
 
@3laine Tampa and Orlando has Tesla employee/installer very early on. When I talk to Tesla employee on the phone, they told me no one can do PW2 installation in South FL, and they get people calling them a lot, even from people representing celebrities. And he told me all he can do is tell the people to make reservation online, and wait for email notification.

Interesting. Seems like South Florida would be a big market, too, but I assume they have some reasoning behind staffing Tampa/Orlando and not South Florida. Wonder why?
 
This will the the last time I respond to the troll, yes, the troll from CA that put his nose in a FL PW2 discussion.

My PV installer didn't push RESU, I reserved my PW2 in Feb 2017, the PV was installed June 2017, they never sway me to cancel my PW2 reservation, in fact I don't know my PV installer could do RESU until 2 weeks ago. Yet the troll accuse that my PV installer PUSH the RESU to me because of commission.

Also, you have proof that "Tesla doesn't do commissions"?

If you look at the discussion here: Software versions for Powerwall 2?
the app get update very often, sometime there is enhancement, some time there is set back. Basically users are being experiment on. It's a legit concern about consistency, and I simply quote the references I read.

Anyway, enough of entertaining the triggered troll for today.
 
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