Powerwall 2: Installation

[shokunin]

What are folks in SoCal paying for Powerwall installs? I have one quote from an installer for $20,000 total for 2 Powerwalls

I'm in Socal and contacted Swell Energy for a quote but the minute they heard that my solar panels are leased through Sunpower she said she couldn't help me since they are not allowed to touch anything in my solar installation.

However, if she gave me a $20,000 quote, even with the SGIP rebate, I'd hang up.

Has anyone with a leased solar installation (other than solar city) been able to get a powerwall installation?

I tried looking at the Sunpower website, but it seems they're not doing any residential stationary energy storage.

 

[coolgj]

If there isn’t anyone in Georgia that has a Powerwall 2 yet, does anyone know what the current wait time is for a Powerwall 2?

 

[Az_Rael]

However, if she gave me a $20,000 quote, even with the SGIP rebate, I'd hang up.

Yeah, I have asked them what I get for that $$ installation, I will be very interested to hear their response. I am guessing they will flush mount them in the walls of my garage with some nice solid mahogany trim or something for that price.

The funny thing is they said (1) was $12K. Another installer also quoted me $11K for (1). So I was probably in for that. I asked for 2 Powerwalls figuring I would only be paying for the 2nd powerwall since most of the install costs were sunk with the 1st one. Then I got the $20K quote.

Maybe they just don't want to sell me two, who knows.

 

[shokunin]

At $20K, I'd go with Tesla Energy even with the reduced step 3 rebate. For me, no sense in paying a premium of $6-$8K+ in installation versus a $2k? reduced step 3 rebate.

 

[Shawn Lavin]

Our install of two Powerwalls (completed Monday) was $13.8k by Solar City for an install to tie into an existing solar install where the main circuit did not need an upgrade. $11k for the two Powerwalls, $700 for the gateway, the rest for permits, wiring, breakers, labor... did not seem excessive. Note that if our main panel needed an upgrade, the number would have gone up as much as $2k.

The downside is that we are getting in line for Phase 3 SGIP, but compare an extra $6k out of pocket to the Step 2/Step 3 drop, I would not even consider it. If the Step 2 is 0.40/Wh and Step 3 is 0.35/Wh we are talking what ? $1350 difference...

 

[arnolddeleon]

I apologize if this has been covered, but I haven't read all 39 pages of this thread.

What are folks in SoCal paying for Powerwall installs? I have one quote from an installer for $20,000 total for 2 Powerwalls. That cost does include the 2 Powerwalls, but otherwise it seems very high. I would be doing this as part of my solar installation if that matters. Advantage they have is they have the powerwalls in stock so I could proceed immediately and maximize my chances at getting the SGIP rebate. But I don't want to overpay on the install costs either.

Easy to find out what people are "paying" by looking at this data: https://www.selfgenca.com/report/public/

That is the spreadsheet of SGIP applicants that have been received by the program administrators. It is easy to filter it down down to the cities you are interested in. I looked at Palmdale only found 2 residential projects this year. One for 2 Tesla Powerwalls
$19,617.00 and second one that LG battery system that looks like it is part of a larger solar project.

arnold

 

[Az_Rael]

Easy to find out what people are "paying" by looking at this data: https://www.selfgenca.com/report/public/

That is the spreadsheet of SGIP applicants that have been received by the program administrators. It is easy to filter it down down to the cities you are interested in. I looked at Palmdale only found 2 residential projects this year. One for 2 Tesla Powerwalls
$19,617.00 and second one that LG battery system that looks like it is part of a larger solar project.

arnold

Well, that sheet is enlightening, thank you! I sorted by SCE and all the variants of "Tesla", then narrowed it to installs with 2 powerwalls. Eligible costs (outside of a few odd ones) ranged from $12,500 to well into the $20K range. Tesla/SolarCity is by far the largest installer in the $12-$16K range for 2 units. There are a LOT of installs in the $20K range for 2 units, so apparently that is a pretty common bid in the market (and people are paying that much, I guess?).

Holy smokes, someone did a $26K install in Lancaster for 2 Powerwalls. I see other folks in Palmdale/Lancaster have also been "paying" in the $20K range for 2.

 

[dlieu]

umph... installed today (no solar). No automatic time schedule for load shifting, (or i have to go to flip it on at 11pm, flip off at 7am). Otherwise backup only. Meanwhile, my sgip application has been suspended for the 4th time in bureaucratic paperwork fight between Tesla and PGE.

They promise firmware update though by the end of the year with the load shifting use case. At no point i was warned the use case is actually in the future, although i specifically discussed this with the sales rep.

overall, feel pretty let down by Tesla (or should i say, Solar City) with all the disparities between set expectations and the reality. Well i hope they would patch the backup use case rather sooner than later.

 

[Az_Rael]

At no point i was warned the use case is actually in the future, although i specifically discussed this with the sales rep.

Yeah, my sales rep talked about the load shifting as well. No info that it wasn't actually there yet. One of the 3rd party installers actually had that info correct vs TE. (And I saw it here, so I am aware)

 

[zanary]

umph... installed today (no solar). No automatic time schedule for load shifting, (or i have to go to flip it on at 11pm, flip off at 7am). Otherwise backup only. Meanwhile, my sgip application has been suspended for the 4th time in bureaucratic paperwork fight between Tesla and PGE.

They promise firmware update though by the end of the year with the load shifting use case. At no point i was warned the use case is actually in the future, although i specifically discussed this with the sales rep.

overall, feel pretty let down by Tesla (or should i say, Solar City) with all the disparities between set expectations and the reality. Well i hope they would patch the backup use case rather sooner than later.

I'm also in the same boat as you. Quantity 2 Powerwall without solar. I was told looking forward to Time of Use Load Shifting, but alas it won't arrive until end of year, but that's ok, because for the past two weeks I've been manually flipping my breaker on and off to do it myself.

So far it's been pretty cool, my usage is is around 15kwh so I'm pretty happy.

 

[Kren]

Anyone in Atlanta, Georgia have a Powerwall 2 yet?

I want to order one but trying to figure out how long is the wait.

I am in Southern California. Out here, most of us are waiting for the rebates offered by the state of California before install. It took me about 4 weeks from the time I submitted my deposit to Tesla until the time when I received confirmation that they are ready to do the install. I have to change my main panel so the utilities had to inspect that and think a permit was pulled. I already had solar panels.

 

[Kren]

After a long period of waiting, I have received my 2 Powerwalls. Now I am waiting for the installer. Unfortunately he left for a 3 week vacation just as the powerwalls arrived.

My system:

3 years ago built a garage for 3 cars (S≡X), plus an open parking spot plus a shack.
Put 30kW worth of solar panels on the roof. Currently being used to feed the cars, surplus goes in the house, anything left after that goes to the grid.

The Powerwalls are to go in the shack.

We pay about 0.30 Euro per kWh from the grid. When we sell a kWh to the grid we get 0.13 Euro. Currently we break even with our consumption (not in kWh but in Euros). With the powerwall we expect a positive net cash flow.

How long is the .13 Euro guaranteed for selling to the Grid? I used to live in Hannover and there was some talk that they would end this because roof top solar is so efficient the utility company has no where to place all the extra electricity.

 

[Johann Koeber]

How long is the .13 Euro guaranteed for selling to the Grid? I used to live in Hannover and there was some talk that they would end this because roof top solar is so efficient the utility company has no where to place all the extra electricity.

It is being phased out. My contract is good for 20 years. Any new installations have lower guarantees, lowering the amount every year; but not for the existing contracts.

 

[ohmman]

This thread is a repository for discussions regarding installation details, including install costs. Posts prior to this have been moved from previous threads.

 

[ohmman]

Last week I had a Tesla tech come out and upgrade the antenna on my Neurio unit so that they could monitor loads out at the utility demarc on the other side of my vineyard. To remind readers, I have 400A service delivered out there, which splits to 200A x 2 and goes to two different structures on my property. My main house has the Powerwalls, and the second leg has no backup or solar. Until now, I could see loads only at my main house, and nothing from the pool house. Now, I can see all loads.

Interesting thing about this - if I flip the 200A breaker going to my main house, the Tesla app will show that I'm in backup mode, but I'll still see power coming from the grid (to feed my pool house). Interesting to see solar charging the battery and feeding the main house while the pool house is on grid.

I discussed with him the options to having a solar array on the other side of my vineyard near the demarcation. He said they'd have to move the gateway out there, and I'd be limited to 40A of backfeed. They are developing a 400A gateway, which should be available before the end of the year (sound familiar?)

Anyway, just thought I'd update. The long range antenna is probably reaching about 400-500ft, and it's not clear line of sight. There are a few walls in the way.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Today was supposed to be panel upgrade, PG&E was a no show. Worked with the installer to get as much prep work done. They have gateway on the wall, some of the wiring pulled, the new load center is on the wall. The scheduling team had two days allocated for the battery install. They should have scheduled two days for the electrical panel work.

arnold

 

[Lotsadriving]

had a pair of powerwalls installed a month ago, anybody notice what looks like 500watts per day per powerwall vampire draw? (1.01 to 1.05 kWh per day powerwall loss)

Given a Solar system that generates 20-25 kWh per day, this is a large parasitic loss.

Anyone else hearing powerwall fan noise inside their house from the unit mounted on the outside bedroom wall?

I’ve asked tech support on this and several other items and they notate my account, but don’t respond...

 

[GenSao]

Our 2X Powerwall 2 install was originally scheduled for one day, November 6, 2017. Last week Tesla/Solar City called me to reschedule the installation over two day, November 13 and 14th. They stated that their more experienced team went to Puerto Rico, what I would call the A Team. The B Team will take their place and need more time to do the install.

I hope more time will allow for a smoother installation.

 

[bonaire]

had a pair of powerwalls installed a month ago, anybody notice what looks like 500watts per day per powerwall vampire draw? (1.01 to 1.05 kWh per day powerwall loss)

Given a Solar system that generates 20-25 kWh per day, this is a large parasitic loss.

Anyone else hearing powerwall fan noise inside their house from the unit mounted on the outside bedroom wall?

I’ve asked tech support on this and several other items and they notate my account, but don’t respond...

Could you describe how you sense this and if this is used for arbitrage daily-cycling? You will lose energy when charging/discharging cells daily for TOU arbitrage. meaning - Solar Puts out say 22kWh. Then that "goes into" batteries as 22kWh produced, but you will pull out say 20kWh. If you were to use/sell this amount instaneously, your grid meter would likely have a 21.5 to 22.0 kWh delta.

This discrepancy is due to the 91.8% efficiency rating of the PW2.0 DC model. Is your a DC or AC model? In any event, you will lose about 8% of the power put into a powerwall if cycling daily. Charge/discharge daily is an energy losing event.

In the end, you could have sold more kWh (22) to the grid at a higher TOU rate than storing them in batteries and losing that 1+ kWh. it will get worse over time as the batteries start to create internal resistance due to Ion plating and their storage capacity drops slightly every year.

Is your computation including the efficiency rating or excluding it? If including it - are you seeing the 1kWh beyond the efficiency calculation? If a fan is being turned on, then the TMS is either cooling the cells to keep them at a proper temperature or the charging cycle is heating them up - and heat is one part of the efficiency issues of losing energy during the charge cycle. Your efficiency goes down the faster you dump the cells during peak use - what is your output discharge rate? One PW 2.0 shows a 7kW discharge peak and 5kW continuous. However, if you discharge at 3kW, it should allow more power to be pulled out over a longer period during the evening session. Consider charging for say 3 hours from noon to 3pm and then discharging from 5pm-8pm allowing for 3-hour charge/discharge rather than 2 hour and seeing how that looks on your energy efficiency.

 

[bonaire]

How long is the .13 Euro guaranteed for selling to the Grid? I used to live in Hannover and there was some talk that they would end this because roof top solar is so efficient the utility company has no where to place all the extra electricity.

Sure they do - into cars or storage batteries on the grid at substations. Keep selling EVs and "all that extra power" will be used for charging. Or, they could build some pumped hydro storage locations and charge during the day to balance energy sourcing. There is really never "too much" electricity. However, there can be "too little" planning and regulation management.

In my area of the US grid, the daily production/demand runs into the 130 GW peaks when everyone is using Air Conditioning. However, right now, our daily peaks even during workdays is in the 80-85 GW range due to lack of air conditioning needed. It's amazing that so much power is used to keep us comfortable. How does production/demand drop so much? That is effectively 50 1GW power plants. Well, forethought is done and plant turbines are taken offline - using less fuel sources. Renewables continue to produce and are a bigger factor when coal and NG production is lowered. Nuclear plants can also be maintained when demand expectations are lower. In fact, the power production/demand curves now are showing impact of solar PV during these lower demand days in the fall. The deep nightly dip is where we need more EVs plugging in and charging up for the day-ahead.