Powerwall 2: Installation

[wwhitney]

Wayne, do you know if the gateway has an accessible status signal?

I don't know, there's certainly high level information available to feed the app, but it would be nice to have a simple set of contacts with a defined logic.

A complicating issue with change is the Arc Fault requirement which may kick in if you modify things (unless you currently have AFCI outlets).

210.12(B) now has an exception that allow extending existing wiring up to 6 feet without causing the AFCI requirement to kick in, as long as no new loads are added.

There are many ways to configure a Powerwall system for this location. Figuring out the best would require an ordered list of loads to backup if possible. An important limitation to keep in mind is that with 1 Powerwall, Tesla will only allow circuits up to 30A to be backed up; with 2 Powerwalls, 60A; etc. This is a simple, approximate way for them to express the power output limitation of the Powerwall.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mongo]

I don't know, there's certainly high level information available to feed the app, but it would be nice to have a simple set of contacts with a defined logic.


210.12(B) now has an exception that allow extending existing wiring up to 6 feet without causing the AFCI requirement to kick in, as long as no new loads are added.

There are many ways to configure a Powerwall system for this location. Figuring out the best would require an ordered list of loads to backup if possible. An important limitation to keep in mind is that with 1 Powerwall, Tesla will only allow circuits up to 30A to be backed up; with 2 Powerwalls, 60A; etc. This is a simple, approximate way for them to express the power output limitation of the Powerwall.

Cheers, Wayne

That is great info regarding AFCI, thank you.
Tesla allowed PW max loading/ output is also quite useful. Any idea if the output is an autoformer(phase balance requirement)?
I agree, further system design needs actual loads to see what makes sense.

General thoughts regarding load shedding: One could use contactors with coils fed from the utility side, but that is sort of wasteful (always on). Disable relays placed in the control signal path would remove the constant power usage and is currently used with generators and homes with multiple AC units.

 

[arnolddeleon]

The latest on the saga that is my install.

Main panel upgrade is still not finished. The third attempt was rescheduled to 12/26. In a minor miracle PG&E showed up on schedule. However the 26th was a holiday in Cupertino so no city inspections could be done. No inspection means no reconnect from PG&E so my installers waived PG&E away and continued to do what they can. My loads have been transferred to the new panel (which is being fed by temporary feed from the old main panel). I'm running the house on 90A (which is actually not hard to do). So the score so far is 3 visits by PG&E on days that they couldn't anything and a no show on the one day that it could have mattered. Needless to say I was not pleased when I called scheduling. I was not looking forward to another 3-4 week wait (the time it seems to take schedule a PG&E visit). I'm totally unimpressed with the back office operation of Solar/Tesla. The people that I've worked on site have been excellent but I see so much waste and they are spinning their wheels or wasting time because of poor planning.

Today and and tomorrow are the scheduled Powerwall install. The installers came today. After about 4 hours they were done. Nothing more they could until the panel upgrade is complete. More evidence of poor work being done in the back office. The installer notices the wire specified is too big for the load (generator) panel specified. Someone has to get a new panel. I think the designers and project managers need to spend some time in the field to get a sense of the issues that are out there.

I'm told that PG&E in the new year will go from 3 week advanced scheduling to 3 day. We shall see.

Well at least the batteries are now here. That's technically a wall mount double stack. I also need fashion a door stop (the small 2 x 4 is prototype) to keep the door from hitting the batteries.

Below is the generator panel mounted below by Outback inverters.

Plastic covers old main panel. The stucco was demoed around it in preparation for the new main panel. The bottom grey unit is my main load center. The unit above it is the gateway, note the two ears which I believe are antennas for the Neuro.

 

[wwhitney]

If you're comfortable doing so, opening the cover of the backup gateway and taking a photo to post would be very interesting.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[arnolddeleon]

If you're comfortable doing so, opening the cover of the backup gateway and taking a photo to post would be very interesting.

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah, I had it open before but forgot to take a photo. It's currently not energized so easy, after the morning chores

arnold

 

[arnolddeleon]

Yeah, I had it open before but forgot to take a photo. It's currently not energized so easy, after the morning chores

arnold

As promised.

Not the "label" that says "MANUAL OVERRIDE". It looks to me like allows you press a button/pin on the transfer switch. There is a hole behind part of the label and the label is slight proud and is flexible. I should have taken an photo of the back of the cover that makes that clear.

Looks like only one set of CT's so far. I'm wondering if they're going to put a set on the feed coming from the generation panel. You can also see the grey circle with the pin which I'm guessing is the manual override.

 

[jeep1979]

As promised.

Not the "label" that says "MANUAL OVERRIDE". It looks to me like allows you press a button/pin on the transfer switch. There is a hole behind part of the label and the label is slight proud and is flexible. I should have taken an photo of the back of the cover that makes that clear.
View attachment 269453


Looks like only one set of CT's so far. I'm wondering if they're going to put a set on the feed coming from the generation panel. You can also see the grey circle with the pin which I'm guessing is the manual override.
View attachment 269455

Arnold,

Your switch setup seems different than mine unless it is not yet complete. Here is my complete setup

My switch has a 200A breaker in it

Inside it looks like this

In my install the mains were run directly to the switch and then back to the main panel to the house breakers.

The switch is also connected to this smaller 125A subpanel for just the batteries and the solar

My system has been up and running for about one and a half weeks. I have been running pretty much off grid since the install.

 

[jeep1979]

Arnold,

Your switch setup seems different than mine unless it is not yet complete. Here is my complete setup

View attachment 269709

My switch has a 200A breaker in it

View attachment 269710

Inside it looks like this

View attachment 269711

In my install the mains were run directly to the switch and then back to the main panel to the house breakers.

View attachment 269712

The switch is also connected to this smaller 125A subpanel for just the batteries and the solar

My system has been up and running for about one and a half weeks. I have been running pretty much off grid since the install.

View attachment 269713

Here are my batteries mounted to the wall of my house

 

[Unpilot]

I wish I was going to live in my present house for more that 3 years. I would love to put solar and a power wall in.

 

[jeep1979]

I wish I was going to live in my present house for more that 3 years. I would love to put solar and a power wall in.

And I wish I could afford a Tesla car

 

[arnolddeleon]

Here are my batteries mounted to the wall of my house

View attachment 269724

Interesting do you have whole house backup? In my install the new main panel doesn't have have loads it just has a breaker that will feed the gateway. I think that's why my gateway doesn't have a breaker. You are also correct that my install is not quite finished yet. Notably missing are the to hots going down to the new main load center below. You can see the the neutral and ground going down but the others aren't there yet. The gateway doesn't have power yet.

I also noticed that different crews have different degrees of craftsmanship. Some of the conduits around the batteries were not a neat they could have been. It's really obvious on the wall with grooves. I've seen work by electricians that really take pride in their work, some not as much. That bottom conduit body is not inline and plumb. If they had not pulled cable through it already I would ask them to fix it.

 

[jeep1979]

Interesting do you have whole house backup? In my install the new main panel doesn't have have loads it just has a breaker that will feed the gateway. I think that's why my gateway doesn't have a breaker. You are also correct that my install is not quite finished yet. Notably missing are the to hots going down to the new main load center below. You can see the the neutral and ground going down but the others aren't there yet. The gateway doesn't have power yet.

I also noticed that different crews have different degrees of craftsmanship. Some of the conduits around the batteries were not a neat they could have been. It's really obvious on the wall with grooves. I've seen work by electricians that really take pride in their work, some not as much. That bottom conduit body is not inline and plumb. If they had not pulled cable through it already I would ask them to fix it.
View attachment 269974

Yes, I have whole house backup. My crew seemed extremely capable and extremely pleased with their work. The first day there were four of them and the second day they finished up with three. I was originally told that there would be a second panel box where they would relocate all the breakers and leave just the 200A in the main panel. Instead, on the install , they routed the power coming into the main panel directly to the 200A breaker in the switch and then back to the 200A breaker in the main panel.

Hard to get a good image of it here. I have a couple of current sensors installed on the power lines coming back from the switch. I use these to monitor the energy use of individual devices in my house.

In addition, I had gone out and bought a whole house surge protector and asked the Solar City guys if they would install it for me which they did. Actually, that was back in October when they came out and just did my main panel upgrade. However, with the new wiring a surge would go to their 200A breaker first. I'll have to think about where it should be located. It needs its own 50A breaker for the surge protector.

I am glad they got it installed just before the shortest day of the year. This gave me a chance to see that my limited solar production was enough to keep the batteries charged and the solar/batteries to run my house without any issues or having to draw power from the grid. As the days get longer, things should get even better.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Yes, I have whole house backup. My crew seemed extremely capable and extremely pleased with their work. The first day there were four of them and the second day they finished up with three. I was originally told that there would be a second panel box where they would relocate all the breakers and leave just the 200A in the main panel. Instead, on the install , they routed the power coming into the main panel directly to the 200A breaker in the switch and then back to the 200A breaker in the main panel.

View attachment 270004 View attachment 270005

Hard to get a good image of it here. I have a couple of current sensors installed on the power lines coming back from the switch. I use these to monitor the energy use of individual devices in my house.

In addition, I had gone out and bought a whole house surge protector and asked the Solar City guys if they would install it for me which they did. Actually, that was back in October when they came out and just did my main panel upgrade. However, with the new wiring a surge would go to their 200A breaker first. I'll have to think about where it should be located. It needs its own 50A breaker for the surge protector.

View attachment 270007
I am glad they got it installed just before the shortest day of the year. This gave me a chance to see that my limited solar production was enough to keep the batteries charged and the solar/batteries to run my house without any issues or having to draw power from the grid. As the days get longer, things should get even better.

Oh wow, lots of similarities with my configuration. I think if I had the right model main panel they would have done something similar. I was trying to avoid the expense of a main panel upgrade and tried to convince them to something similar. My panel had previously been modified by solar city with a line side tap so I thought it should have really easy to do something similar to what they did for you but no go. I have currently have a Square D main panel and it uses parallel conductors.

I also have lots of CTs in panels. I've been monitoring usage for many users. I also have a whole house surge protector which they had to move.

Both of my crews have been competent. The main panel crew was more receptive to talking to me and were willing to engage me with the trade offs in the decisions on where and how to run things. I think I was able to save them some work because I was pretty familiar with my electrical system and knew where things were in the walls. In one case they did me a favor by doing the splice for circuit that needed to move to a location that eliminated a conduit run that ran diagonally over my garage. The battery crew was more the "get out of our way" typoe, except for the lead person. Perhaps it was because some of them had vacations cancelled (of course my job had been on the calendar for at least 2 months, but I already have commented that the back office needs a little more competence). The lead person was willing to talk to me except he was occupied much of the time talking to the back office while the rest of the crew did their "standard install".

arnold

 

[arnolddeleon]

Today was supposed to be the day to finish main panel upgrade (and commission my powerwalls). Tesla crew showed up, PG&E canceled, apparently crews redeployed to deal with power outages because of the rain. Sigh. . . I'm now scheduled for Thursday this week. Apologies to the person that had a Thursday install that might be short a Tesla crew now. I'm told PG&E has confirmed.

arnold

 

[TheTalkingMule]

It's almost as if the local utility is attempting to sabotage your efforts to powering your home.

 

[arnolddeleon]

My system was "commissioned" yesterday, I was told to wait 24 hours for it to show up in my Tesla app. 24 hours later, still no joy. I get "Sign-In Failed There are no products linked to your Tesla account.". I called today and I was told the one person that dealt with Powerwalls had left already so here I am, so near yet so far.

arnold

 

[arnolddeleon]

Ooh, decided to check my network and look for the Powerwall and lo and behold there it is. For anyone else looking MAC OUI is 00:01:45 which translates to Winsyste Winsystems, Inc.

Interesting it says "Registration Incomplete". According to the page the Powerwall is running.

 

[Kren]

Ooh, decided to check my network and look for the Powerwall and lo and behold there it is. For anyone else looking MAC OUI is 00:01:45 which translates to Winsyste Winsystems, Inc.

Interesting it says "Registration Incomplete". According to the page the Powerwall is running.

I had to register my powerwalls myself in order to use the app. I waited a week for it to come online like the installer told me. It never did. I just happened to try and register it myself and that worked. | Tesla

 

[Kren]

Ooh, decided to check my network and look for the Powerwall and lo and behold there it is. For anyone else looking MAC OUI is 00:01:45 which translates to Winsyste Winsystems, Inc.

Interesting it says "Registration Incomplete". According to the page the Powerwall is running.

Congratulations on finally getting setup. Now the real fun begins.
Not sure if you saw this forum but you might find contents very interesting: Discrepancy between app and Powerwall API

 

[arnolddeleon]

I had to register my powerwalls myself in order to use the app. I waited a week for it to come online like the installer told me. It never did. I just happened to try and register it myself and that worked. | Tesla

Thanks! I just did it now I can see the Powerwall on my app.

arnold