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PowerWall 2 Interface with a Generator

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Sorry to bump an old thread. However I have a working solution.

My setup is the same as before. Looks like I had a faulty inverter. I've replaced that now.

I performed some testing and was able to generate 2.5kW from the solar inverter.

I looked at my Tesla app and it showed the house load decrease by 2.5kW.

I flicked off the grid and put the powerwall into backup mode.

Unfortunately the powerwall operates at 230V in backup mode and the grid is closer to 245V in my area. My generator solar inverter doesn't output any power at <230V grid connection.

My next step is to contact my solar installer and see if I can alter the settings so the inverter outputs power at 230V. Otherwise I will call Tesla and see if they can bump up the backup voltage to 240V.

I am extremely excited about this. Goodbye power outages!
 
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I have simplified the parts list to eliminate the first AC inverter and use a cheaper micro-inverter. This is the new chain of parts:

EV 12V aux battery -> 720W DC-DC Step Up Converter 24VDC 30A -> 600W Solar Grid-Tie 120VAC micro-inverter -> 120V/240V 1000W step up transformer -> NEMA 6-20 socket wired to PowerWall Generation Panel & looped through the PowerWall solar CTs.

I will probably get around to trying this out sometime this summer because the BOM is now less than $300. I was worried about not having an auto-transformer with a neutral tap, but the existing micro-inverters don't connect to the neutral at all, so this shouldn't need to either.
I ended up simplifying this even further, skipping the 240V transformer and extension cord to the panel. I just plugged it in to the household 120V outlet right next to my parking space. Everything worked as expected with the exception of the cheap inverter getting hot and reducing output over the course of the first 10 minutes. I think it stabilized after the fan kicked on. See my new thread here:
Powerwall 2.0 Backup Runtime Extender
 
Sorry to bump an old thread. However I have a working solution.

My setup is the same as before. Looks like I had a faulty inverter. I've replaced that now.

I performed some testing and was able to generate 2.5kW from the solar inverter.

I looked at my Tesla app and it showed the house load decrease by 2.5kW.

I flicked off the grid and put the powerwall into backup mode.

Unfortunately the powerwall operates at 230V in backup mode and the grid is closer to 245V in my area. My generator solar inverter doesn't output any power at <230V grid connection.

My next step is to contact my solar installer and see if I can alter the settings so the inverter outputs power at 230V. Otherwise I will call Tesla and see if they can bump up the backup voltage to 240V.

I am extremely excited about this. Goodbye power outages!
Would you mind describing the generator to inverter connection in more detail?
 
I too would be very interested to know how you interfaced the generator to the inverter. Sounds like you are almost there!

I checked the specs on my inverters, and they will operate from 213-264 VAC so I'm surprised yours shuts down at 230 VAC.

The UL1741 spec says between 88% and 110% of nominal grid voltage, so even if yours is at 245 VAC then it should continue to work down to 216 VAC.

Did you have your generator connected before you turned off the grid? There is a brief outage as the gateway switches over which sometimes trips inverters. After 5 minutes they will resume operation. Or try adding the generator after the Powerwall is in backup mode.
 
Would you mind describing the generator to inverter connection in more detail?

I too would be very interested to know how you interfaced the generator to the inverter. Sounds like you are almost there!

I have a single phase 240V RMS 50Hz 5kW Petrol Generator with 2 15A outlets.

MVIMG_20180826_154621.jpg

I made a cable up which plugs into one of these outlets and connects to a full wave rectifier.
MVIMG_20180826_154636.jpg

MVIMG_20180826_154721.jpg

From the rectifier I have a SolaX 5kW inverter in parallel with a 400V 18mF capacitor (to remove the ripple in the rectified DC)
MVIMG_20180826_154735.jpg

MVIMG_20180826_154934.jpg

Currently the inverter is just plugged into a power point, however I have plans to hardwire it into my switchboard.
MVIMG_20180826_154747.jpg

Images below are of the output ramp

MVIMG_20180826_154940.jpg

MVIMG_20180826_155033.jpg

MVIMG_20180826_155053.jpg


Ramp complete (I limited it to 2kW for now)
MVIMG_20180826_155219.jpg


I have also written a program which automatically starts the generator when the grid is out and the powerwall charge drops below a designated level.
 
Did you have your generator connected before you turned off the grid? There is a brief outage as the gateway switches over which sometimes trips inverters. After 5 minutes they will resume operation. Or try adding the generator after the Powerwall is in backup mode.

No. I only want my Generator to charge the powerwall when there is a grid outage. I only started the generator and turned on the power point after I turned the grid off.

The inverter still connects to the powerwall 'grid' fine. It just doesn't output any power unless the circuit voltage is above 230.

I verified this by my actual solar inverter (with actual solar panels connected).

I ran the generator-inverter (grid off) when it was cloudy and the voltage was below 230. When the sun came out, the voltage rose to 234 and the generator-inverter worked fine up to 2kW, until the clouds came back and it stopped outputting as the voltage dropped below 230 again.
 
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The SolaX looks to have an operating range of 180-280 VAC which is quite generous compared to the UL standard in the US.

Are you getting a Grid Volt Fault at 230 VAC? Maybe your inverter is configured for a much tighter operating voltage range? Can you verify what the Grid parameter "Vac Lower" is set to?
 
The SolaX looks to have an operating range of 180-280 VAC which is quite generous compared to the UL standard in the US.

Are you getting a Grid Volt Fault at 230 VAC? Maybe your inverter is configured for a much tighter operating voltage range? Can you verify what the Grid parameter "Vac Lower" is set to?

No grid faults.

It just says Normal, like you can see in the pictures in a previous post, however with no output.

This inverter is configured to operate between 180 and 265V.
 
Powerwalls are listed as backup generators themselves. Thats how you can have your power on during an outage with powerwalls and a PV system vs no power during a outage with PV only. So you will use a generator to charge your generator in order to power your house. Thats very wasteful.
Just as a hybrid car is more efficient than a typical combustion car, this hybrid Powerwall-ICE Generator solution allows you to continue running your house during a grid outage even when your solar is insufficient. It may only be necessary to run the generator for an hour or two per day, whereas neighbors without Powerwalls would have to run their generators continuously, even when the load is light.
 
Just as a hybrid car is more efficient than a typical combustion car, this hybrid Powerwall-ICE Generator solution allows you to continue running your house during a grid outage even when your solar is insufficient. It may only be necessary to run the generator for an hour or two per day, whereas neighbors without Powerwalls would have to run their generators continuously, even when the load is light.

+1

Even better is that generators run a low efficiency at low loads and can get soot build up if running at less than 10% of capacity, but if you want to back up the whole house, you need a big generator in order to handle the peak demands. Coupling a generator to a set of powerwalls allows you to kick the genset on when the PW's run low, and then run the generator in it's sweet spot, even if it's the middle of the night and the house is pulling little demand. The efficiency trade off between the genset at low load and in the sweet spot beats the inverter in/out loss the PW inserts.

of course, if you have enough sun during the day, every day, of an outage to avoid the need to switch a genset on, that's great. But there is a correlation between bad weather (stormy, rain, etc...) and power outages, so often time the times you need the backup power is when the sun may not be shining well enough to charge everything.


mike
 
+1

Even better is that generators run a low efficiency at low loads and can get soot build up if running at less than 10% of capacity, but if you want to back up the whole house, you need a big generator in order to handle the peak demands. Coupling a generator to a set of powerwalls allows you to kick the genset on when the PW's run low, and then run the generator in it's sweet spot, even if it's the middle of the night and the house is pulling little demand. The efficiency trade off between the genset at low load and in the sweet spot beats the inverter in/out loss the PW inserts.

of course, if you have enough sun during the day, every day, of an outage to avoid the need to switch a genset on, that's great. But there is a correlation between bad weather (stormy, rain, etc...) and power outages, so often time the times you need the backup power is when the sun may not be shining well enough to charge everything.


mike
The very principal of how hybrid-cars work. Run the ICE at optimal efficiency / load and buffer with battery and electric.

Sounds like a great idea to implement for home. Too bad PowerWalls are not up to the task yet.

There are other battery-backup products out there which are generator compatible, but at much extra cost.
 
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I started this thread more than a year ago after my Powerwall 2 arrived July 2017, but its installation was delayed due to uncertainties about Tesla’s support for use with a generator. It is still not installed more than a year later.

A number of months were spent with our installer negotiating an acceptable wiring configuration with Tesla to combine our house, solar and the generator with the Powewall, but that was worked out, in theory at least, some time ago. The progress since then has been intermittent, for a variety of reasons, but 2 months ago our installer sent his team out and they got everything wired up according to plan.

Aug 6th was to be the big day that we would turn it all on and run the configuration software. I was very excited. I already had Ethernet running to the gateway location for monitoring solar production and we added a small switch to add in the Tesla Gateway. That is where the recent trouble started.

The Gateway needed to update firmware and was having connection problems with the server. We called tech support and they said that since I lived in a rural area, (true) the network connection was not fast enough to support the download. I called BS. I said that I have an “over 20Mbps” service, and they said, well that is what you pay for, but not what you get. I said I test it regularly at 23-24Mbps and manage to watch 4K every night on my Apple TV. That seemed to work, but the next thing was, “Are you connected directly to the modem, or are there any switches or hubs involved”. Yes, there are, I said, both by the modem in the garage at by the Gateway. We were then told, no switches or hubs allowed, that is why it does not work; our download is very fussy about these things. So, I rewired the garage and eliminated the local switch to provide a direct connection from the Gateway to the modem, but with no improvement in the results. Then it was, well your Ethernet cable must be bad. So, we had someone drive an hour to bring a new spool of Cat5 and ran a new direct run from the modem. Both the installer and I can add the RJ-45 connectors and we both had Ethernet cable testers. The new cable worked with our laptop, but still no luck with the gateway firmware download.

I was convinced all along that this “support” from Tesla was BS, but it sort of became a game to see how quickly we could knock down their latest excuse and get them back on the line. Otherwise, it was, well we told you it would not work that way. We didn’t know how else to move forward.

One more call to tech support and this time we were told that this was a known problem with the 1.0.0 software in the year-old gateway and we would have to have a Tesla tech come out to the house and do a firmware “sideload”. Can’t we do it, my installer asked. No, we can’t trust anyone with our firmware, was the answer back. They said that they would send someone out as soon as possible to update the firmware, but 5 weeks later, nothing, despite my installer calling his area rep on multiple occasions.

The real irony of all this is that during the recent Ferguson Fire, which was on three sides of our community, we were evacuated for 11 days and no grid power to the house. Because the final Powerwall install was in progress, the generator was disconnected. Without the generator or the solar/Powerwall in operation all of the food in our refrigerators and freezers went bad and that added a few more thousands of dollars to the cost of this seemingly never-ending installation.

I have had a lot of money tied up in this installation for more than a year now with nothing to show for it. Any clues how I can get this process moving forward? Thanks for letting me vent. Maybe someone will notice.
 
Thanks, that is a good suggestion. I'll check with my installer.

We have discussed that we might be willing to drive it to Reno if we could get a tour of the Gigafactory.

Still a fanboy.

Your current Gateway is defective and they should really just ship a replacement Gateway to your installer. It could even be as simple as swapping out a little board inside. (Or not if the newer Gateways have been significantly redesigned.)
 
Still not certain I have heard an "official" answer as to where this started especially from the 10x trial customers.

My best case scenario: In the event the PW2 runs out of power at night and the grid is out (my house is in Puerto Rico and power goes out every day for an hour or two) can I use (automatically or manually) my 20kw Generator to run the house and with the extra power charge the PW2 (in my case 3x of them). Ultimately it would be great if the Generator would cover the house load and any extra would go into the PW2s thus getting a close to a full generator load as possible. Once the PW2s hit a certain level shut of Generator until needed again.

A little background I have 45x 350watt solar panels feeding my 3x PW2s and a 20Kw Generac Propane Generator with 200Gallons of Propane.

Real world: After Hurricane Maria like everyone else in Puerto Rico we had no power (4mos and 1 day). I did have my generator however it burns ~2.2 gallons an hour with little to no load and about 2.5 gallons an hour fully loaded. Given we had to conserve propane, as there was no way to get more, we clearly couldn't run it all day as it wouldn't last a week. We also couldn't run it enough to keep a refrigerator or AC going and be worth anything. However, had we been able to use the extra power to top off PW2s I suspect we could have kept some of the AC and the fridge going 7x24 while only running the generator a few hours every day.

Honestly even though the system that's being installed now has lots of solar panels I would like to be able to cover myself if: 1. At night if PW2 runs out and the grid is out that the generator is used as efficiently as possible. 2. A situation where the panels get devastated and grid is out (another Hurricane) and all I have is the generator and the PW2s.

Thanks.
 
It seems to me that with a solar array that large and 3 Powerwalls, you should be able to manage your electrical loads so that the Powerwalls will never run out. By managing loads, I mean doing things like limiting air conditioning to selected rooms. If you really want to allow the generator to put energy into the Powerwalls, I think @technerdx6000 has shown that it can work if you are willing to buy another 10kW solar inverter dedicated to the task. 2 hours running the generator should give you a nice boost to your Powerwalls in case of extended overcast weather.