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Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives
- Thread starter avesraggiana
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- Powerwall Tesla Energy
Frankman60
Member
As Kren mentioned, all other SGIP authorized contractors are taking advantage of the tight supply of PWs and SGIP rebates, and the demand for small residential installations and are maximizing profit margins while they can. All of the contractors in my area provided estimates much higher than Tesla (no SGIP rebate) so I based my selection on the amount of experience installing PWs because the estimates were similar. The contractor I chose had already installed more than 125 PWs under the SGIP program which was much more than other contractors in my area, including Tesla. You can see a list of contractors in your area and see how many installations contractors have done under the SGIP program if you want to consider how much experience they have. I think others on this forum are more qualified than me to assess the technical difficulty of installing a PW system. But there are other factors to consider such as properly and timely submitting the SGIP rebate.
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
I would give them some time. Even Tesla may take 48 hrs to respond. Also, many installers buddy up with other installers to share work (i.e. subcontract). On the flip side, the advertised company name may differ from their official business name. This may explain why SGIP is very scrupulous identifying levels of developer participation from all entities.
My Tesla rep is now telling me I can't get into Step 2 for large storage. I'm not exactly sure why, because there's more than $4M remaining for Step 2 in CSE territory, and Tesla is about $3M under their cap. So it might be that the SGIP website isn't up to date, or that Tesla has a backlog of large storage projects that they think totals $3M in incentives.
It's irritating that it's taken this long to find this out.
It's irritating that it's taken this long to find this out.
Frankman60
Member
I’m not happy to hear that either. I was thinking of going that route with 3 PWs but without knowing how many large storage customers were in Tesla’s queue it would be a substantial difference in cost if I had to go to Step 3. I really didn’t need 3 PWs but like you mentioned, it would have been less expensive than 2 PWs installed by another contractor. Going to Step 3 in a large storage project is now more expensive than two PWs at Step 4 for me. Speaking of Step 4, wasn’t the developer cap supposed to set earlier this week? Is that when they set the rebate amounts too?
I never saw an announcement, but if you look at the metrics page, it now shows the small residential storage developer cap for step 4 as $2,115,309.91.
Frankman60
Member
OK. Now how long will the funds last? I believe reservations begin on Monday 2/26. Step 3 was open for 2 days until the cap was reached.
Markb1and Frankman60 are you both in CSE territory? seems to be a different animal altogether. The rest of the utilities are still in Step 2 and the way it looks Step 2 is still good to go for another 3 to 6 mos. at least. I wonder why CSE area is blowing through their funds so fast? Well we will see how long their funds last when step 4 opens. After this, there is only one more step for Step for CSE area unless they supply more funds.
Frankman60
Member
Spoke with an Energy Advisor today and was told that for Large Scale Systems Tesla has already fully allocated Step 2 and anything for Step 3 was only going to be for their commercial customers. Also said that there was pretty no chance in Small Scale at this time and it wouldn't be worth the paperwork. Not surprised given the demand.
neptune2000
Bi
I was told the same. Tesla is effectively completely allocated all the way to step 5.
Someone asked me about my experience trying to be my own developer here in PG&E territory in Step 2. So here's a brief recap:
I ordered 1 Powerwall on July 10, 2017, so I missed participating with Tesla in SGIP Step 1 or Step 2. After some time waiting (in vain) for SGIP Step 3 to open, I confirmed my order on September 6. I subsequently changed my Tesla order to 2 Powerwalls, signing a new contract on February 5, 2018.
Since as of October SGIP Step 3 hadn't open in PG&E land (and still hasn't!) I started looking into being my own developer. I submitted my Developer Application on October 26, but I didn't get my developer key until January 24. Then I submitted my SGIP application February 6, after I got the updated contract from Tesla.
PG&E cancelled my application on February 21, claiming that when Tesla is the installer on a project, they are also the developer. The basis for this seems to have been what Tesla told them, and they did not seem to look very closely at the supporting materials I submitted. Once I got PG&E to look at the supporting materials, they agreed that I handling everal of the development activities Tesla said they normally do, and my application was reinstated on March 6. It is now in RRF Technical Review (what is the next status change I should expect?)
A few take-away points if you are interested in pursuing this yourself in PG&E territory:
1) Rules for the SGIP are set by the CPUC but carried out by the several utilities. The Program Administrators try to coordinate their implementation of the program, but there will still be some variation across utilities.
2) The developer definition was revised for Steps 3 and beyond, although I was able to qualify under the original Step 1 and Step 2 definition. The idea that the phrase "corporate entity" in the original definition rules out individuals (homeowners, sole proprietors, or partnerships) seems to have been dropped in light of the CPUC's subsequent guidance. Please also note that the "exclusive list of a project’s development activities" in the SGIP Handbook applies to both the original and revised definitions of developer: you can see by looking at the definition of Developer in the appendix that the list is not part of the definition.
3) PG&E seems to be operating under the presumption that when Tesla is the installer on a project, they will be the developer, but this is rebuttable. It probably requires taking on some duties that Tesla normally handles. The activities I handled, in order of increasing difficulty in my opinion:
A) Apply for your own interconnection agreement with PG&E via egi-pge.com. In case anyone is interested, I have some pointers from PG&E on how to fill out their online forms for the case of adding batteries to an existing NEM 1.0 solar installation. Note that while PG&E may try to bill you an interconnection fee for the application, there is no fee for changes to NEM 1.0, unless you are adding enough additional solar panels to no longer qualify for NEM 1.0. So in that case you will need to get PG&E to withdraw the invoice to get your interconnection application to proceed.
B) Submit your own SGIP application. A lot has been said about this already in this thread. I did elect to skip the Proposed Monitoring Plan, as while I have solar I am electing not to seek the ITC and not to agree to charge the Powerwalls only from my solar.
C) Design the installation yourself. Principally this would mean coming up with a one-line diagram showing all your panels and feeder sizes, where the Backup Gateway will be connected, and where the Powerwalls will be connected. Some attention to the physical details of the installation should be paid. Tesla Engineering will want to do their own design, but you can do your own design and try to point Tesla in a certain direction. Ultimately you need a design that Tesla is willing to install.
D) Do some of the installation work yourself, with a permit from the building department. In California homeowners are allowed to do this. I went ahead and installed 3 new electrical panels, dividing my circuits between a future backed up panel (critical loads) and a non-backuped panel (noncritical loads). I also put in separate small panels for terminating my AC solar circuit and for connecting the batteries. Per the SGIP, you need a licensed contractor to install the power storage system itself, e.g. Tesla.
Cheers, Wayne
I ordered 1 Powerwall on July 10, 2017, so I missed participating with Tesla in SGIP Step 1 or Step 2. After some time waiting (in vain) for SGIP Step 3 to open, I confirmed my order on September 6. I subsequently changed my Tesla order to 2 Powerwalls, signing a new contract on February 5, 2018.
Since as of October SGIP Step 3 hadn't open in PG&E land (and still hasn't!) I started looking into being my own developer. I submitted my Developer Application on October 26, but I didn't get my developer key until January 24. Then I submitted my SGIP application February 6, after I got the updated contract from Tesla.
PG&E cancelled my application on February 21, claiming that when Tesla is the installer on a project, they are also the developer. The basis for this seems to have been what Tesla told them, and they did not seem to look very closely at the supporting materials I submitted. Once I got PG&E to look at the supporting materials, they agreed that I handling everal of the development activities Tesla said they normally do, and my application was reinstated on March 6. It is now in RRF Technical Review (what is the next status change I should expect?)
A few take-away points if you are interested in pursuing this yourself in PG&E territory:
1) Rules for the SGIP are set by the CPUC but carried out by the several utilities. The Program Administrators try to coordinate their implementation of the program, but there will still be some variation across utilities.
2) The developer definition was revised for Steps 3 and beyond, although I was able to qualify under the original Step 1 and Step 2 definition. The idea that the phrase "corporate entity" in the original definition rules out individuals (homeowners, sole proprietors, or partnerships) seems to have been dropped in light of the CPUC's subsequent guidance. Please also note that the "exclusive list of a project’s development activities" in the SGIP Handbook applies to both the original and revised definitions of developer: you can see by looking at the definition of Developer in the appendix that the list is not part of the definition.
3) PG&E seems to be operating under the presumption that when Tesla is the installer on a project, they will be the developer, but this is rebuttable. It probably requires taking on some duties that Tesla normally handles. The activities I handled, in order of increasing difficulty in my opinion:
A) Apply for your own interconnection agreement with PG&E via egi-pge.com. In case anyone is interested, I have some pointers from PG&E on how to fill out their online forms for the case of adding batteries to an existing NEM 1.0 solar installation. Note that while PG&E may try to bill you an interconnection fee for the application, there is no fee for changes to NEM 1.0, unless you are adding enough additional solar panels to no longer qualify for NEM 1.0. So in that case you will need to get PG&E to withdraw the invoice to get your interconnection application to proceed.
B) Submit your own SGIP application. A lot has been said about this already in this thread. I did elect to skip the Proposed Monitoring Plan, as while I have solar I am electing not to seek the ITC and not to agree to charge the Powerwalls only from my solar.
C) Design the installation yourself. Principally this would mean coming up with a one-line diagram showing all your panels and feeder sizes, where the Backup Gateway will be connected, and where the Powerwalls will be connected. Some attention to the physical details of the installation should be paid. Tesla Engineering will want to do their own design, but you can do your own design and try to point Tesla in a certain direction. Ultimately you need a design that Tesla is willing to install.
D) Do some of the installation work yourself, with a permit from the building department. In California homeowners are allowed to do this. I went ahead and installed 3 new electrical panels, dividing my circuits between a future backed up panel (critical loads) and a non-backuped panel (noncritical loads). I also put in separate small panels for terminating my AC solar circuit and for connecting the batteries. Per the SGIP, you need a licensed contractor to install the power storage system itself, e.g. Tesla.
Cheers, Wayne
Good Afternoon! Been reading the forums for months now and decided to join in. Had a PW2 and 5.2kw system installed in the last week (great team that installed and I am so far very pleased). I too have been curious about the potential of an SGIP rebate from PG&E so I thought I would share my knowledge. A couple things I noticed: Today the SGIP site for PG&E went from "Closed" to "Will open soon". Along those lines I would expect something to come out by the end of the week based on a PUC meeting that is adopting a resolution about PG&E and SCE SGIP Cost allocations. This could be why they have been delayed for so long to go to Step 3. On April 26th there is a vote at a standard meeting, here is the link to the document that they will be approving.
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M212/K560/212560872.PDF
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M212/K560/212560872.PDF
Just a note: in the announcements (SGIP |) they have already said that SCE Step 3 will open May 7th. I'm assuming that PG&E may follow with some delay, given that SCE closed Step 2 before PG&E did.
Hello, I am waiting for a developer key from SGIP. Can you give me a timeline and any helpfull tips to approval?
Ulmo
Active Member
GenSao
Member
I recently contacted Tesla about the Status SGIP for my two Powerwalls. Although I started the process on 07/31/17, based on the email below, I likely will not be in SGIP Step 3. =/
I understand it is a bit of a gamble to get the SGIP rebate with Tesla, but I didn't want to reward contractors that mark up the cost of installation to the point where the contractor effectively got the majority of the rebate. For example, to install one Powerwall (PW) for a third party contractor was $12,334 vs $7,693 directly with Tesla at the time of my comparison (A $4,641 Difference!). At the time, SGIP Step 2 was $4,640.
Doing the math, there is only so many rebates that can be grated to Tesla under the 20% developer cap.
Step 3 = $2,128,329.26 / $4,060.00 = 524 PW
Step 4 = $2,115,309.91 / $3,480.00 = 607 PW
Step 5 = $1,152,597.75 / $2,900.00 = 397 PW
Total # of Powerwalls for remaining SGIP = 524 + 607 + 397 = 1,528 PW
Assuming a 50/50 split between people getting 1 PW and 2 PW = (1 + 2) / 2 = 1.5 PW / person
Thus, # of SGIP applicants under Tesla's 20% Developer cap = 1,525 PW / 1.5 PW/person = 1,018 people.
This excludes Residential Storage Equity. I am not sure how many would actually qualify under the income requirements of that tier.
I understand it is a bit of a gamble to get the SGIP rebate with Tesla, but I didn't want to reward contractors that mark up the cost of installation to the point where the contractor effectively got the majority of the rebate. For example, to install one Powerwall (PW) for a third party contractor was $12,334 vs $7,693 directly with Tesla at the time of my comparison (A $4,641 Difference!). At the time, SGIP Step 2 was $4,640.
Doing the math, there is only so many rebates that can be grated to Tesla under the 20% developer cap.
Step 3 = $2,128,329.26 / $4,060.00 = 524 PW
Step 4 = $2,115,309.91 / $3,480.00 = 607 PW
Step 5 = $1,152,597.75 / $2,900.00 = 397 PW
Total # of Powerwalls for remaining SGIP = 524 + 607 + 397 = 1,528 PW
Assuming a 50/50 split between people getting 1 PW and 2 PW = (1 + 2) / 2 = 1.5 PW / person
Thus, # of SGIP applicants under Tesla's 20% Developer cap = 1,525 PW / 1.5 PW/person = 1,018 people.
This excludes Residential Storage Equity. I am not sure how many would actually qualify under the income requirements of that tier.
Hmm, that math does look bleak. I signed in September 2017, so am behind you in line. Tesla also told me that they are starting with folks in March/April for step 3. I did not interpret that as me being out of the running for Step 3, but it might.
My system is already installed so I have 12 months to apply. Hopefully step 4 will open in that time frame.
I wonder how Tesla will handle the different utilities opening at different times? SCE opens Monday, but I can't imagine they will fill up their statewide queue just with SCE orders.
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