Powerwall 2 + UPS Connundrum - and solution

[bob_p]

Worst case - if you're having this problem, remove the UPS boxes temporarily and risk having processor-based devices reboot during an on-grid to off-grid transition.

Now that our system is operating, most of our UPS boxes were removed anyway, since we only have a few devices that will be affected by a brief outage during the off grid switchover.

 

[BIC1]

My two CyberPower UPS, 63Hz max, weren't happy with the Powerwall 2. I may have missed this skimming over this 17 page thread. Where can I find the current shutoff frequency setting? I can see the normal operating frequency of each microinverter (60.5Hz) through the APsystems web based app. Page 43 of the installation manual talks about it a bit, but I don't understand it (attached). Thanks.

 

[aesculus]

Where can I find the current shutoff frequency setting?

Tesla support has to do this for you. Call the 800 number.

 

[jjrandorin]

My two CyberPower UPS, 63Hz max, weren't happy with the Powerwall 2. I may have missed this skimming over this 17 page thread. Where can I find the current shutoff frequency setting? I can see the normal operating frequency of each microinverter (60.5Hz) through the APsystems web based app. Page 43 of the installation manual talks about it a bit, but I don't understand it (attached). Thanks.

As far as we know, every powerwall is set to 65hz as the shutoff frequency out the box. You have to call tesla and make a specific request for them to lower it based on your inverter shutoff, AND the tier 1 person needs to see the 65 hz frequency in your logs. This means, you need to have the date and time that you did the test ready to give the tier 1 person, they have to look in the logs of your system to see it, and then escalate the ticket to tier 2.

If you dont know the exact date and time you did the test, do it again (full powerwall, throw main breaker taking yourself off grid, during a time that your house draw does not exceed solar, so that your excess solar has no place to go, triggering the shutdown of your solar by the powerwall).

To answer your direct question, I dont know where in the powerwall you can see this frequency, or if its customer facing at all. I purchased a kill a watt type device to show the frequency, so I could verify it was 65Hz before I called tesla, and also could verify what they changed it to when they changed it.

 

[bob_p]

FYI - this is a setting in the Tesla Backup Gateway - not in the PowerWall. And only Tesla can make the setting change, it isn't currently available through the Gateway's installer interface.

 

[BIC1]

FYI - this is a setting in the Tesla Backup Gateway - not in the PowerWall. And only Tesla can make the setting change, it isn't currently available through the Gateway's installer interface.

My microinverters are set to operate up to 60.5Hz (AP YC500). What would be the lowest safe shutoff setting? Is 61Hz cutting it too close?

I have a third party installer, can they do it or would they also have to call Tesla? Thanks.

 

[jjrandorin]

My microinverters are set to operate up to 60.5Hz (AP YC500). What would be the lowest safe shutoff setting? Is 61Hz cutting it too close?

I have a third party installer, can they do it or would they also have to call Tesla? Thanks.

Only tesla can do it, and they will set it to what they think is appropriate. My inverter also has specs that say it turns off at 60.5 hz, and tesla ended up setting the turn off frequency top 62hz which is fine for my UPS etc.

 

[power.saver]

My microinverters are set to operate up to 60.5Hz (AP YC500). What would be the lowest safe shutoff setting? Is 61Hz cutting it too close?

I have a third party installer, can they do it or would they also have to call Tesla? Thanks.

61Hz should not be too close for your inverters. Mine also shut off at 60.5Hz (confirmed by spec and testing) so I requested 61Hz and that's what they set it to.

 

[CSFTN]

Is there a brand/model of UPS we have universal agreement works, without Tesla modifying their settings?

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Yes. some eaton model back in the earlier posts in this thread.

 

[K-MTG]

Yes. some eaton model back in the earlier posts in

I still have to replace 3 of my APCs with it but can’t find it anymore for a reaonable price.

 

[Robotpedlr]

My microinverters are set to operate up to 60.5Hz (AP YC500). What would be the lowest safe shutoff setting? Is 61Hz cutting it too close?

I have a third party installer, can they do it or would they also have to call Tesla? Thanks.

@BIC1 I have the same inverters (APSystem YC500A assume that is what you have). Where you able to confirm the cut off is 60.5hz and get Tesla to adjust your settings on the gateway to 62 or something near that? Would appreciate any guidance as I want to do the same.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is there a brand/model of UPS we have universal agreement works, without Tesla modifying their settings?

This model and others from Eaton work: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005EIGUDE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The problem with just getting UPS devices that work, is it doesnt do anything for the other devices in your home that will not like the 65hz frequency, such as some lights, some microwaves, clocks, devices with motors, etc.

 

[Robotpedlr]

As far as we know, every powerwall is set to 65hz as the shutoff frequency out the box. You have to call tesla and make a specific request for them to lower it based on your inverter shutoff, AND the tier 1 person needs to see the 65 hz frequency in your logs. This means, you need to have the date and time that you did the test ready to give the tier 1 person, they have to look in the logs of your system to see it, and then escalate the ticket to tier 2.

If you dont know the exact date and time you did the test, do it again (full powerwall, throw main breaker taking yourself off grid, during a time that your house draw does not exceed solar, so that your excess solar has no place to go, triggering the shutdown of your solar by the powerwall).

To answer your direct question, I dont know where in the powerwall you can see this frequency, or if its customer facing at all. I purchased a kill a watt type device to show the frequency, so I could verify it was 65Hz before I called tesla, and also could verify what they changed it to when they changed it.

new to the Powerwall world. Which main breaker do you throw for this test? Inside the gateway?

 

[jjrandorin]

new to the Powerwall world. Which main breaker do you throw for this test? Inside the gateway?

Your breaker that connects you to the electrical grid (the main breaker). The goal is to disconnect yourself from the electrical grid, simulating an outage situation.

To test, you want to have your powerwalls at 100% charge, and you want to be producing good solar, so you want a sunny day, because you want to be generating more solar than your house load when you do the test. Then, you disconnect from the grid by throwing your main breaker, and since your system should be producing solar (sunny day), with powerwalls already full, the system will need to shut down the solar panels so will change the frequency to force the solar panels off line.

 

[bob_p]

Inside the panel that has the Tesla Backup Gateway, there is a breaker. That breaker disconnects grid power from the Backup Gateway. Since the Gateway is still connected to the PowerWalls and solar panels, the Gateway will switch to "off grid" and take power only from the solar panels and PowerWalls. If the PowerWalls are near 100% charge, the powerline frequency will be set to 65Hz (by default) to turn off the solar power inverters, since there's no where for that power to go until the PowerWall charge level drops (to 95%?), when the powerline frequency goes back to 60Hz.

To restore grid power, turn the breaker inside the Gateway panel back on. There will likely be a 5 minute delay before the Gateway switches back to grid power. This is normal - for safety (or regulatory ) reasons, it appears the Gateway waits (5 minutes?) before making changes such as going back to grid power or turning back on the solar panel power.

Consumer devices (including UPS) should operate safely at 63Hz. Our microinverters shut off at 60.5Hz, so Tesla set our cutoff frequency to 61.5Hz, and everything we have appears to operate correctly at that frequency. And I suspect that if Tesla has set the frequency to 62, 62.5 or 63, we would likely also be OK.

 

[gpez]

Inside the panel that has the Tesla Backup Gateway, there is a breaker. That breaker disconnects grid power from the Backup Gateway. Since the Gateway is still connected to the PowerWalls and solar panels, the Gateway will switch to "off grid" and take power only from the solar panels and PowerWalls. If the PowerWalls are near 100% charge, the powerline frequency will be set to 65Hz (by default) to turn off the solar power inverters, since there's no where for that power to go until the PowerWall charge level drops (to 95%?), when the powerline frequency goes back to 60Hz.

To restore grid power, turn the breaker inside the Gateway panel back on. There will likely be a 5 minute delay before the Gateway switches back to grid power. This is normal - for safety (or regulatory ) reasons, it appears the Gateway waits (5 minutes?) before making changes such as going back to grid power or turning back on the solar panel power.

Consumer devices (including UPS) should operate safely at 63Hz. Our microinverters shut off at 60.5Hz, so Tesla set our cutoff frequency to 61.5Hz, and everything we have appears to operate correctly at that frequency. And I suspect that if Tesla has set the frequency to 62, 62.5 or 63, we would likely also be OK.

If your system has critical loads and non-critical loads panels then opening the house main breaker will be the best "simulation". Avoids having to open the gateway but then again knowing what breakers do what in your setup is always a good thing

 

[Robotpedlr]

Thanks guys.. My house is full house backup, so no critical loads panel. Will give it a test.

 

[miimura]

Inside the panel that has the Tesla Backup Gateway, there is a breaker. That breaker disconnects grid power from the Backup Gateway. Since the Gateway is still connected to the PowerWalls and solar panels, the Gateway will switch to "off grid" and take power only from the solar panels and PowerWalls. If the PowerWalls are near 100% charge, the powerline frequency will be set to 65Hz (by default) to turn off the solar power inverters, since there's no where for that power to go until the PowerWall charge level drops (to 95%?), when the powerline frequency goes back to 60Hz.

To restore grid power, turn the breaker inside the Gateway panel back on. There will likely be a 5 minute delay before the Gateway switches back to grid power. This is normal - for safety (or regulatory ) reasons, it appears the Gateway waits (5 minutes?) before making changes such as going back to grid power or turning back on the solar panel power.

Consumer devices (including UPS) should operate safely at 63Hz. Our microinverters shut off at 60.5Hz, so Tesla set our cutoff frequency to 61.5Hz, and everything we have appears to operate correctly at that frequency. And I suspect that if Tesla has set the frequency to 62, 62.5 or 63, we would likely also be OK.

This is not universally true. My installation has no breakers inside the Gateway box. There is a breaker in my main panel that directly feeds the Gateway. There is also a breaker in the Generation panel connected to the Gateway switch.

 

[Robotpedlr]

This is not universally true. My installation has no breakers inside the Gateway box. There is a breaker in my main panel that directly feeds the Gateway. There is also a breaker in the Generation panel connected to the Gateway switch.

this is my gateway (attached pic). It has a 200amp breaker in it.