Powerwall 2 "waiting list"

[Frankman60]

Thanks for the two previous posts. I only need one Powerwall, but I would prefer to manage the loads used in my house in the event of a grid outage rather than deciding in advance which specific circuits will be powered. I can control the loads inside the house to stay under 5 kW and I know that there are only 13.5 kWhs to draw from on a fully charged Powerwall. Does Tesla make this limitation for one Powerwall or does the intstaller determine this?

 

[Kren]

I was told my an authorized installer that when the Powerwall 2 is used as a backup in the event of a grid power outage, that only specific circuits within the home can be powered by Powerwall. It was my understanding that the entire house could be powered as long as the power load is less than the output of the Powerwall. I didn’t see anything on Tesla’s website out this limitation.

I just had my Powerwalls installed just before Christmas. I can tell you for fact that Powerwall backed up my whole house. We have 2 powerwalls, set to back up and/or power the whole house. The installer finished at 4pm and said he would come back the next day for testing. Unknown to me, he left the powerwalls online in backup only mode with 20% charge. When he came back in the morning the powerwall was completely drained at 0%. We(well really..me) thought there was a serious problem with the install. But all the tests were okay so the installer assured me everything was fine. Found out from a neighbor that by some strange coincidence, there was a power outage the same night of my install. Not even realizing we were online, we ran microwave, dishwasher etc. Had whole house back up at least for an hour or so before we went to bed and no clue we were off grid.

 

[GenSao]

I only need one Powerwall, but I would prefer to manage the loads used in my house in the event of a grid outage rather than deciding in advance which specific circuits will be powered. I can control the loads inside the house to stay under 5 kW and I know that there are only 13.5 kWhs to draw from on a fully charged Powerwall. Does Tesla make this limitation for one Powerwall or does the intstaller determine this?

Frankman60,

I believe it is up to the installer. If going directly though Tesla, they would be more conservative and install a subpanel for just your essential loads (30A Max for 1 Powewall). Just all your 15A and 20A circuits. I do not think Tesla would connect any 30A Circuits. I heard other installers may connect a limited number of 30A Circuits.

Although you may only need 1 Powewall worth of power in an outage (13.5 kWh). Do keep in mind the limitation:

1. Batteries degrade over time. So say in 10 years, you'll have 80% of your original capacity, say 10.8 kWh.
2. Electrical code is conservative and you are likely not able to tie in any circuits greater than 30A for one Powerwall.
3. You would likely need at least two Powerwalls to connect circuits 30A and greater
4. If you have solar, ideally you have enough powerwalls to cover peak production.

 

[Frankman60]

Thanks for the info. Another installer told me exactly what you said. He said that the Tesla Charger, AC, Stove/oven, and Spa Equipment would not be placed on backup because they are greater than 30 amps. That makes sense to me because I wouldn’t use any of these circuits during a grid outage or the PW battery wouldn’t last very long. I have a PV system rated at 7.6 kW AC so it seems that one PW will be good if I understand the PW specs correctly.

Frankman60,

I believe it is up to the installer. If going directly though Tesla, they would be more conservative and install a subpanel for just your essential loads (30A Max for 1 Powewall). Just all your 15A and 20A circuits. I do not think Tesla would connect any 30A Circuits. I heard other installers may connect a limited number of 30A Circuits.

Although you may only need 1 Powewall worth of power in an outage (13.5 kWh). Do keep in mind the limitation:

1. Batteries degrade over time. So say in 10 years, you'll have 80% of your original capacity, say 10.8 kWh.
2. Electrical code is conservative and you are likely not able to tie in any circuits greater than 30A for one Powerwall.
3. You would likely need at least two Powerwalls to connect circuits 30A and greater
4. If you have solar, ideally you have enough powerwalls to cover peak production.

 

[jeep1979]

I have a 6.2 kw system and had 2 PWs installed last month. My experience to date is that I run through at least 25% of my batteries (50% if I were to have just one) at night alone just running a few lights, computer and TV for a few hours. I am on whole house backup, but do not plan to run things like spa and car charging if there is a power outage. I was somewhat surprised, but Tesla did mention one battery would run a house for about a day. I would think that if you can afford to, to get 2 PWs for additional peace of mind.

 

[MP3Mike]

I have a PV system rated at 7.6 kW AC so it seems that one PW will be good if I understand the PW specs correctly.

No, that means if the grid goes down during peak solar production time and your house usage is less than 2.6 kW your system will likely shut-down all together. (Unless your solar system plays nice with the Powerwall to curtail production.)

A Powerwall can only soak up to 5kW of solar production, so you have to be using the rest of it to not cause a problem. (That is why Tesla suggests having one Powerwall per 5kW of Solar production; so that you don't ever end up leaving power "on-the-table" or end up with the system shutting down.)

 

[GenSao]

Thanks for the info. Another installer told me exactly what you said. He said that the Tesla Charger, AC, Stove/oven, and Spa Equipment would not be placed on backup because they are greater than 30 amps. That makes sense to me because I wouldn’t use any of these circuits during a grid outage or the PW battery wouldn’t last very long. I have a PV system rated at 7.6 kW AC so it seems that one PW will be good if I understand the PW specs correctly.

If you do not mind the Tesla Charger, AC, Stove/oven, and Spa Equipment NOT connected to the Backup loads panel (and use-able in a power outage), then you are good to go with one battery.

If you "prefer to manage the loads used in my house in the event of a grid outage" and have the potential to use/mange the Tesla Charger, AC, Stove/oven, and Spa Equipment in a power outage, they you shoud get two batteries.

Note, a Powerwall can accept up to 5 kW of sustained power flow. So for your 7.6 kW AC system you may need two Powewalls (10 kW) to soak up peak production during an outage. Although the situation is unlikely, there is a risk of the system shutting down the solar array due to not having a place to store excess energy.

 

[GenSao]

MP3Mile,

Wow, a very similar response.

Frankman60,

I noticed the below from the Powerwall 2 FAQ. So you just fit within their allowance for 1 Powerwall.

How large a PV system can I connect with one Powerwall?
To ensure reliable operation during grid outages, at least 1 Powerwall is required for each 7.6kW AC of solar included in the backup circuit.

 

[Frankman60]

Yes, that is what I also saw on the Powerwall FAQ. I originally thought that two Powerwalls were needed with my PV system because as MP3Mike said, one is rated at 5kW sustained. But the contractor that did an on site estimate said that one PW was fine with the PV system generation and the FAQ supports that as well.

MP3Mile,

Wow, a very similar response.

Frankman60,

I noticed the below from the Powerwall 2 FAQ. So you just fit within their allowance for 1 Powerwall.

 

[Frankman60]

Does Tesla give any loyalty priority for Powerwall purchases for current Tesla car owners (similar to Model 3 order priority)? I am mainly thinking of the SGIP rebate availability. Or are the SGIP rebates used up as the purchase agreements are created, without regard to Tesla car ownership?

 

[arnolddeleon]

Does Tesla give any loyalty priority for Powerwall purchases for current Tesla car owners (similar to Model 3 order priority)? I am mainly thinking of the SGIP rebate availability. Or are the SGIP rebates used up as the purchase agreements are created, without regard to Tesla car ownership?

I don't believe prior ownership matters. At least when my order was being in processed it appeared to be first come first served but very rapidly devolved to how fast you can move along on the process. It also appears all the small scale SGIP rebates are "spoken" for within Tesla's queue where Tesla is the installer.

arnold

 

[Frankman60]

Are you saying that the time from when the purchase agreement is signed to the installation date is a very long time? About how long does it take? The Step 4 SGIP rebate is supposed to open next month some time. Are all of Tesla’s allocated rebates already committed for Step 4. What about Step 5? I have tried calling Tesla to ask questions about this but have never been able to get an actual person to talk with (voice mail only) and they never return my call.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Are you saying that the time from when the purchase agreement is signed to the installation date is a very long time? About how long does it take? The Step 4 SGIP rebate is supposed to open next month some time. Are all of Tesla’s allocated rebates already committed for Step 4. What about Step 5? I have tried calling Tesla to ask questions about this but have never been able to get an actual person to talk with (voice mail only) and they never return my call.

Well I placed my order in May 2017. It was commissioned last week (Jan 2018).

You probably want to look here:

Self-Generation Incentive Program

and here

SGIP |

 

[Frankman60]

I still don’t understand what caused the 8 month period from order to commissioning of the system. Was it waiting on the SGIP rebate step to open up, or waiting on Tesla to provide the installation estimate, or waiting on Tesla to manufacture the PW, or something else? If I opted to just forget about the SGIP rebate and buy the PW through Tesla, would it still take 8 months to get it installed?

 

[arnolddeleon]

I still don’t understand what caused the 8 month period from order to commissioning of the system. Was it waiting on the SGIP rebate step to open up, or waiting on Tesla to provide the installation estimate, or waiting on Tesla to manufacture the PW, or something else? If I opted to just forget about the SGIP rebate and buy the PW through Tesla, would it still take 8 months to get it installed?

It's probably less time now but here are factors that I can recall:

• Time to get a design (I was told designers were working as fast as they could in order)
• Waiting for PowerWalls to be available
• Scheduling an install crew
• Scheduling the local utility (in 2017, after every failed attempt was at least 4 weeks)
• Hurricanes in Puerto Rico (reprioritized crews)
• Tesla/utility screw ups
  • Forgetting to submit my SGIP application (back and forth for correction w/ them eventually submitting into step 2)
  • Utility failing to show up (don't know if Tesla or PG&E was at fault)
  • Tesla failing to plan for local city closure (can't get an inspection so utility wouldn't reconnect causing work to be postponed)
  • Tesla at the last minute deciding a needed to sign a contract again (they canceled the crew)

Skipping the SGIP I suspect speeds things up on the front end.

arnold

 

[jeep1979]

I'll add a couple of things to what Arnold said.

1. The Powerwalls were new to many localities and they had to figure out/develop procedures for the permitting process. I was second in line and my permit application was held up until the first persons application was figured out and processed.

2. Hurricane Maria happened in Puerto Rico. Elon Musk diverted Powerwall resources to help Puerto Rico resulting in installation delays for everyone. Most, like me, probably experienced a 2 month delay to their original installation date.

3. SGIP is not really a factor in that Tesla will go ahead (with your approval) of installation without verified reservation of SGIP rebate.

Being that there are a lot of Powerwall reservations in the pipeline there is bound to still be a backlog of installations to do. However, as production and installs ramp up this backlog time should shrink.

Unlike Arnold, I experienced no difficulties with my local utility (SCE)

Keith

 

[Frankman60]

Arnold and Keith thanks for your insights on the process. I guess I will make a deposit with Tesla and start the process. Hopefully some of the issues that you mentioned that caused delays no longer are issues.

 

[Kren]

I still don’t understand what caused the 8 month period from order to commissioning of the system. Was it waiting on the SGIP rebate step to open up, or waiting on Tesla to provide the installation estimate, or waiting on Tesla to manufacture the PW, or something else? If I opted to just forget about the SGIP rebate and buy the PW through Tesla, would it still take 8 months to get it installed?

I think a lot has to do with where you live and when you sign contract. I signed up August 30, 2017. In November I told Tesla I was willing to install without waiting for SGIP rebate. I was given a number of dates in December for install. I have been up and running since Dec 23rd. They will hold up your install without asking you if they think you are waiting for an SGIP rebate. You have to make sure they know you are willing to install without SGIP. However a friend of mine in my same region signed his contract a month after me and was told he would have to wait until end of March/April. They held up his install because they thought he wanted to wait for Step 3 SGIP to open. Now he has to wait until after the Puerto Rico situation even though he told them he is not waiting for Step 3.

 

[abasile]

If you do not mind the Tesla Charger, AC, Stove/oven, and Spa Equipment NOT connected to the Backup loads panel (and use-able in a power outage), then you are good to go with one battery.

While we're okay with not backing up our EV charging station, we consider it essential to back up the electric induction range and the HVAC, and this is a major reason why we opted for two Powerwalls instead of one. Should there be an extended outage during autumn or winter when PV production is lower, we wouldn't do any baking, and we'd want to be careful about our HVAC use, of course.

I think a lot has to do with where you live and when you sign contract. I signed up August 30, 2017. In November I told Tesla I was willing to install without waiting for SGIP rebate. I was given a number of dates in December for install. I have been up and running since Dec 23rd. They will hold up your install without asking you if they think you are waiting for an SGIP rebate. You have to make sure they know you are willing to install without SGIP. However a friend of mine in my same region signed his contract a month after me and was told he would have to wait until end of March/April. They held up his install because they thought he wanted to wait for Step 3 SGIP to open. Now he has to wait until after the Puerto Rico situation even though he told them he is not waiting for Step 3.

Congratulations on getting your Powerwalls installed last month! That's great to hear.

Did you put down your initial deposit on August 30, or is that when you actually signed your contract following Tesla's creation of a system design?

With Tesla, I put down a $1000 deposit for two Powerwalls in late August. It took Tesla over six weeks to design our system, given their backlog, and we signed a contract in mid-October. (Meanwhile, I had a contract with a third party installer for a single Powerwall that I cancelled in early October when it became clear that they wouldn't be able to back up all of our home circuits as the contract had specified; my growing doubts about using a third party installer and only installing one Powerwall had led me to place a deposit with Tesla in August.)

After some delays and hiccups in Tesla getting a permit with the County, we were given an install date in mid-March. Based on emails from SCE that have been CC'd to us, we see that there's also been some back-and-forth on the utility interconnection agreement, but that seems to have been resolved.

 

[Frankman60]

Does anyone know if Tesla’s queue of waiting customers right now exceeds the last two SGIP rebate steps (4 and 5)? Step 4 opens up next month but it is possible that Tesla already has a long list of customers with signed purchase agreements waiting to use up those rebates when they become available.