PowerWall and "The Missing Piece..." Event

[NuclearPowered]

DC/DC converter is included. 2k Inverters are provided by SolarEdge.

So for one Powerwall, one also needs to purchase the solaredge
inverter or for multiple powerwalls, the more powerful models. I am not sure if this is able to generate it's own sine wave for true off grid use. Installation details are needed. For people that already have solar installed, the solaredge power optimizers are also required to avoid DC->AC->DC->AC losses when using stored solar energy.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I reserved. I'll probably stack up 9 of the 7kW units.

This configuration is probably what they intend for folks who want to charge their Model S while being off grid.

 

[Lloyd]

Sadly this doesn't include everything... Seem like Elon said it included the inverter (AC to DC) but the press kit say it doesn't... So I'm a bit confused about it. It just a battery or not...

It likely includes a small inverter AC to DC to charge the battery from the grid slowly, but if you need to take power out of it then you need an appropriately sized DC to AC inverter to power your home in an outage. At least that's what I'm getting out of it after the live presentation and reading the Teslaenergy info provided which is not much!

 

[aznt1217]

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about how it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since production will likely be constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

Probably due to the production issue you mentioned, but I also think it's because it's simple math if you buy it for a generator replacement. Generators are super expensive compared to this thing

 

[Joel]

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since production will likely be constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

Well said.

I'd imagine most people with a solar array will reserve (or be interested in reserving) a Power Wall. I'm going to expand my Solar Array and order 9 Power Walls. Might as well take advantage of the 30% federal tax credit for a solar project ($22,050.00 for 90 kWh - after the 30% federal tax credit - is a bargain).

 

[Owner]

I'm an environmentalist and a solar owner for over 7 years...

But I'm not even slightly inclined to get one. Convince me am I missing something?

My situation:
1. power generation on an annual basis is even
2. i have variable rates
3. i charge the Tesla in the middle of the night
4. I generate 75% of the energy during 4 months of the year (I'm just guessing here!!!)
5. I don't have big problems with power going out in the last few years and would not pay $3500 to solve that anyways.
6. I pay $10 (guessing here) to stay connected to the grid per month.

I'd have to add more solar to be able to go off grid.

I want to be excited about this and am for some people.

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since production will likely be constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about how it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since they will likely be production-constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity in that respect.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

Yes. I actually expected details on financing/leasing arrangements and was surprised it wasn't there. At the same time I was so pleased with the price I didn't get worked up over it.

 

[James Anders]

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since production will likely be constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

Exactly. I get his and Tesla's vision. Great. But they should have spent another 15 minutes to spell things out explicitly. How about showing those units in the various colors? How about explaining the cost/benefit/payback for a typical family?

He's a visionary but not a good speaker. He should have been able to turn over the presentation to someone else who could explain these details.

The video should have been able to convey the real world costs and benefits to the average non-techie, homeowner who could watch this and get excited.

Such a wasted opportunity.

And before I get pounced upon - let me reiterate that I get it. I understand the power and benefits. But this is not a great looking car that people can easily understand the benefits. There are other costs involved.

The talk and video and info should have been as polished and engineered as well as I suspect the physical product is.

 

[Krugerrand]

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since they will likely be production-constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity in that respect.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

I believe the disconnect is that we've got a bunch of super smart people putting this all together and simply not realizing that the rest of the world isn't as super smart as they are, and so they often assume everyone else will just get it.

 

[shelbri]

We have a boat with an 11.5 kWh generator onboard. By storing power while tied to the dock and then having this available at anchor, this would eliminate the need for the heavy generator during weekend trips. Can it be charged via my engines' alternators to store energy while underway just like regular batteries.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

It likely includes a small inverter AC to DC to charge the battery from the grid slowly, but if you need to take power out of it then you need an appropriately sized DC to AC inverter to power your home in an outage. At least that's what I'm getting out of it after the live presentation and reading the Teslaenergy info provided which is not much!

Isn't this intended (at the home level) primarily for solar customers who already would have an inverter?

 

[austinEV]

This is all great, but...

Elon and company missed an opportunity here to show how this benefits a typical homeowner. I'm not talking about how it's beneficial technically (balancing the grid, storing solar at night, etc.). I'm talking about how it financially benefits a homeowner. They should have had some examples in their presentation about how a typical homeowner could come out ahead by getting this system. It costs me $3500+installation. OK. How much do I save over its lifetime?

Without that aspect, I was left thinking that people who are educated on renewable energy will see the benefits, but the benefits won't translate to the masses. Maybe they don't need it to translate to the masses for a long while, since they will likely be production-constrained for years to come. But regardless, it's a missed opportunity in that respect.

I'd suggest that many in the press will be left with similar questions.

I come away from this thinking that Tesla makes great, world-changing products, but doesn't do a great job presenting them.

No, no, no. This is exactly what leads to "what were they thinking" monday morning quarterbacking. If they did a savings financial analysis, it would have been for San Francisco Electricity rates (which are far out of the norm) and CA incentives. That makes sense for the audience but it would be a global corner case. That would be like the Model S pricing calculators they put on the website and got so much crap for. The audience for the home model are people who want to get solar because they want to save money and be green but don't like the utility of essentially having to sell back the power they generate. if your utility buys your overgeneration at retail rates, they ARE your battery and you don't need this. For the rest of us, this makes solar interesting for the first time.

 

[chickensevil]

He has loooong way to go to become half the speaker that Jobs was. It's something he should really work on.

Sorry, that was merely in reference to the, oh by the way... We have been running on batteries all night from power generated by the sun...

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, once long ago, Jobs had a tech demo and at the end said, oh by the way this demo was powered by a Mac running Intel.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I'm an environmentalist and a solar owner for over 7 years...

But I'm not even slightly inclined to get one. Convince me am I missing something?

My situation:
1. power generation on an annual basis is even
2. i have variable rates
3. i charge the Tesla in the middle of the night
4. I generate 75% of the energy during 4 months of the year (I'm just guessing here!!!)
5. I don't have big problems with power going out in the last few years and would not pay $3500 to solve that anyways.
6. I pay $10 (guessing here) to stay connected to the grid per month.

I'd have to add more solar to be able to go off grid.

I want to be excited about this and am for some people.

Honestly, the big near term opportunity here is the utility scale projects. So you probably aren't missing anything.

 

[skboston]

There needs to be a lot more information available, the presentation kind of lacked, it felt made by a 10 year old.

It says AC-DC inverter isn't included, but it doesn't say if Tesla will be selling ones or people need to find them on their own. Lots of questions are left unanswered here.

 

[Owner]

Nope. We all have tiered rates with solar...

No, no, no. This is exactly what leads to "what were they thinking" monday morning quarterbacking. If they did a savings financial analysis, it would have been for San Francisco Electricity rates (which are far out of the norm) and CA incentives. .

 

[Brentt]

I'll buy one. The area I live in loses power five or six times a year for anywhere from thirty minutes to three or four hours each time.
I already have a generator but it's a pain to get it started and switch the panel from grid to generator plus I have to keep up maintenance on it.

 

[Lloyd]

Isn't this intended (at the home level) primarily for solar customers who already would have an inverter?

Yes, but the solar inverters today are NOT standalone and automatically shut off when grid power is removed. It remains to be seen if existing inverters can integrate with this system, and how a remote service disconnect will work. I was a little confused how a battery in your garage can power your home and how the safety interlock will work for the utility.

 

[Joel]

Perhaps Elon could have filled the first hour of waiting with details/demonstration rather than bad music.

 

[Owner]

I agree. This seems much more valuable to the business market than the homeowner.

Honestly, the big near term opportunity here is the utility scale projects. So you probably aren't missing anything.