-
The final cut of the 8th episode of the Tesla Motors Club Podcast, featuring Balazs Biro, of the prominent Hungarian EV channel Villanyautósok, is now available. You can watch it now on YouTube or listen to it on all major podcast networks.
Powerwall for Sale, $5500
- Thread starter srk67
- Start date
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but for most people that does not come out cheaper.
Most of your target audience is going to be "coastal elites". They will pay their marginal Fed tax rate and their marginal state tax rate on that 1099 income. Anyone with a Fed rate of 27% and a state rate of about 9% will "break even" on this transaction, and that is not considering the risk of paying a 3rd party instead of paying Tesla directly.
And lets be honest, most of those buying powerwalls are probably above the 27% marginal fed tax rate.
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
"Also, at this time I do want to make sure you are aware, Tesla will be awarding you the following:
v Founder Series Powerwall(s) ($6,500)
v Energy Gateway ($1,100)
v Installation Credit ($1,000) per install
Any remaining costs will be an out of pocket expense."
Email from Tesla as I proceed with referral powerwall installation.
The most important question is: Would Tesla be using the cost of the powerwall unit alone ($6,500) when sending the 1099? Or would they be taking the cost of all three $8,600 (powerwall, gateway and credit) in their 1099 calculation?
Also, would referral Powerwall and its associated installation cost be deductible on ones federal taxes? The federal incentive tax credit is 30% this year.
So a buyer would pay you $5,500 and also pay taxes on the 1099? If so, then wouldn't buying a referral powerwall from awardees make it more expensive for the buyer than buying from Tesla directly for $6,500?
Federal marginal tax rate of 37% and state marginal tax rate of 13% totals 50%. The buyer would be paying $4,300 in taxes on that 1099 income which Tesla reports.
Total cost to buyer: $5,500 paid to above seller + $4,300 in taxes =$9,800.
I'm sorry but this doesn't come out cheaper for anyone.
Please correct me if in wrong.
Buying directly from Tesla for $6,500 and getting the federal incentive tax credit (30%) makes effective cost to buyer $4,550.
Buying from above awardee costs $4,300 in taxes alone, not even counting the $5,500 asking price.
I understand people want to make a profit from their referral awards, so the most anyone could/should offer for buying is $250 ($4,550-$4,300).
Is it safe to assume that awardees that are not getting the referral powerwalls installed are "stuck" with this award and can't really do anything with this award?
v Founder Series Powerwall(s) ($6,500)
v Energy Gateway ($1,100)
v Installation Credit ($1,000) per install
Any remaining costs will be an out of pocket expense."
Email from Tesla as I proceed with referral powerwall installation.
The most important question is: Would Tesla be using the cost of the powerwall unit alone ($6,500) when sending the 1099? Or would they be taking the cost of all three $8,600 (powerwall, gateway and credit) in their 1099 calculation?
Also, would referral Powerwall and its associated installation cost be deductible on ones federal taxes? The federal incentive tax credit is 30% this year.
So a buyer would pay you $5,500 and also pay taxes on the 1099? If so, then wouldn't buying a referral powerwall from awardees make it more expensive for the buyer than buying from Tesla directly for $6,500?
Federal marginal tax rate of 37% and state marginal tax rate of 13% totals 50%. The buyer would be paying $4,300 in taxes on that 1099 income which Tesla reports.
Total cost to buyer: $5,500 paid to above seller + $4,300 in taxes =$9,800.
I'm sorry but this doesn't come out cheaper for anyone.
Please correct me if in wrong.
Buying directly from Tesla for $6,500 and getting the federal incentive tax credit (30%) makes effective cost to buyer $4,550.
Buying from above awardee costs $4,300 in taxes alone, not even counting the $5,500 asking price.
I understand people want to make a profit from their referral awards, so the most anyone could/should offer for buying is $250 ($4,550-$4,300).
Is it safe to assume that awardees that are not getting the referral powerwalls installed are "stuck" with this award and can't really do anything with this award?
Last edited:
Your analysis is flawed. You're using taxes on the full $8,600 award ($4,300), but only comparing that to the $6,500 direct PW cost from Tesla. You have to include the gateway ($1,100) and FULL installation cost (approx $2500) if you buy direct. The $5,500 asking price includes the entire package.
No, people don't want to "make a profit".. we just want to sell them at a reasonable cost that makes sense for a buyer. Without knowing the buyer's effective tax bracket and state income tax (it's only 6% here), it's very hard to make a deal that's fair to both buyers and sellers, or that doesn't carry significant risk for one or the other. Someone who lives in a no-income tax state and has a low effective tax rate can probably get a great deal on one of these (I have four to sell for friends -- 2 sets of 2PWs, so if you're interested, PM me)
Also, anyone can claim the 30% tax credit, even if buying privately.
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
The reason I'm only counting the additional powerwall cost of $6,500 is because I'm already getting the referral powerwall installed and paying all other additional costs for installation out-of-pocket.
One gateway can handle upto 10 powerwalls, and so there would be no need for me to buy any other referral award gateway from seller. The cost Tesla charges to install the second, third or fourth additional powerwall is quite small as they are adding on to the system that I'm paying for already. The installation credit of $1000 for each referral powerwall should cover the cost of adding these units to an existing system installation.
I am not lucky enough to live in a low state income tax state and am taxed at the highest marginal tax rates, both federal (37%) and state (13%), hence my calculation using 50% taxes.
I'll pm you and let's see if we can agree upon a good price for both you and me.
I am wondering if you get 1 separate powerwall referral deals, does Tesla combine the two installation credits? That would give you $2000 installation credit for two singles as opposed to $1000 installation credit for the 2 powerwall package. If that is the case, buying a pair is actually less if a deal than buying singles.
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
The federal incentive tax credit is only available to those that are adding the powerwall to an existing solar system or installing at the same time as the solar system. If an awardee does not meet either of the 2 above conditions then they cannot deduct anything (from the $8,600 acquisition cost) on their federal tax return. So then it would cost them whatever their marginal federal and state tax rates on the W9 income of $8,600 is. Those lucky enough to live in state tax free states stand to benefit the most as they would only he liable for the federal taxes on the W9 income if $8,600, while those in high state income tax states end up paying the most for the PW, especially if they are also in the highest marginal tax brackets.
In order to do that, you'd probably have to get one PW2 install completed, and then come back later with the second "add-on" PW installation. But I doubt they would give you two $1k credits to install two separate PW2 awards at the same time. I'm sure that would overwhelm their contract, engineering, inspection, and permitting systems to have two separate projects going on at the same time, at the same place, for two separate powerwalls.
You will probably get a $1000 credit if you install 2. They came with up with depends on the region why it isn't $1000 per powerwall. I had 2 installed and there was only $1000 credit plus a $300 install charge for side by side install. If an award can be sold off one at a time maybe you get $1000 per award.
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
Have you confirmed this with a CPA?
If that's the case, then your assertion is that buyer can claim that they bought powerwall for OP $5,500 and try to claim this $1,650 credit? Who's going to stop someone from trying to claim that they bought the PW for say, $10k and try to claim $3,000 ITC on their taxes.
I don't think this would hold up in the event there was an IRS audit. But that's just me, if anyone feels cavalier enough to take on the IRS, then sure go ahead.
Last edited:
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
Get 3 from Tesla certified installers. PM me and I'll share with you what they are quoting me.
Amit519
Roadster dreams!!
Then would the seller be reporting this income from the sale of their powerwall?
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
