Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Powerwall In Garage [what are the rules around this?]

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Passed final today. Inspector said “oh, batteries? Heh, looks good. Not much for me to check on these. Have a nice day.”

He looked for the red stickers marking the circuits and that was about it. 😆

Lol congrats! You're telling me they didn't look for weep holes in your external conduit LBs? What the heckkkkk.

What county are you in again?
 
Honestly there really isn’t any to speak of - they just ran 10/3 Romex through the wall from the panel to the back side of the Powerwalls and there’s a tiny piece of galvanized conduit from the back of the PW to the drywall.


Was the home run from your roof solar panels to your gateway/generation panel in a conduit? That home run should have a weep hole at whatever the lowest point is so you could see if water is getting in from your rooftop and sneaking into the conduit.

Yes, we're a bunch of nerds on this forum who for some reason know more about the stupid crap that inspectors ding people on than any normal group of people should know.

And the only reason any of us know this stuff is because of Vines and Wwhitney somehow know all this stuff and share with us.
 
Was the home run from your roof solar panels to your gateway/generation panel in a conduit? That home run should have a weep hole at whatever the lowest point is so you could see if water is getting in from your rooftop and sneaking into the conduit.

Yes, we're a bunch of nerds on this forum who for some reason know more about the stupid crap that inspectors ding people on than any normal group of people should know.

And the only reason any of us know this stuff is because of Vines and Wwhitney somehow know all this stuff and share with us.
Ah yeah. Solar has been installed for several years now, ~8kw SunPower microinverters. Runs back to the panel in flex conduit. No clue if it has any weep holes or other moisture consideration but I doubt it.
 
That weep hole is mostly for pipe internal condensation that can happen as the air in there changes humidity with atmospheric humidity and the temperature changes from day to night because of that metal pipe, a very good heat transfer material.
 
This is kind of going in the direction of what PG&E has been arguing; that the completely decentralized residential solar and battery systems are unsafe and inefficient. The safest in the words of PG&E would be if they built all the solar and batteries somewhere and of course made it super safe where the generation/battery fire wouldn't get ya.

Having the transmission lines catch fire and kill you is your problem. You need to give them more money for that benefit. But at least it won't be a battery fire that kills you.
Utility-scale solar and storage is the most efficient use of resources. In the PNW, our solar system barely makes 1-2 KWh per day when the skies are cloudy in winter and it has to fight to grab the sun rays through tree branches far away when the sun is shining but is barely above the horizon.

Unfortunately, we have had eight outages in a year, the longest lasting six days. Not having local generation makes the difference between throwing hundreds of dollars of food away and keeping the fridges running through an outage.
 
Utility-scale solar and storage is the most efficient use of resources. In the PNW, our solar system barely makes 1-2 KWh per day when the skies are cloudy in winter and it has to fight to grab the sun rays through tree branches far away when the sun is shining but is barely above the horizon.

Unfortunately, we have had eight outages in a year, the longest lasting six days. Not having local generation makes the difference between throwing hundreds of dollars of food away and keeping the fridges running through an outage.

You are not going to find many supporters here to the notion that the best use of resources is for the utility to (basically) control the energy from the sun, then sell it to users, instead of them doing it on their own homes.
 
Utility-scale solar and storage is the most efficient use of resources. In the PNW, our solar system barely makes 1-2 KWh per day when the skies are cloudy in winter and it has to fight to grab the sun rays through tree branches far away when the sun is shining but is barely above the horizon.

Unfortunately, we have had eight outages in a year, the longest lasting six days. Not having local generation makes the difference between throwing hundreds of dollars of food away and keeping the fridges running through an outage.
Sounds reasonable, 1-2 kWh per day is all a refrigerator requires.
A single Powerwall 2 and your existing PV would have been enough to ride through the described outage, as long as you were smart with the rest of your usage.

As pointed out above, utility backup power and centralized generation would not help you at all, as likely it is local transmission lines that caused your outage.

Distributed generation and storage pays for itself in many ways but especially independence. If you had 8 events and lost $500 worth of food each time, your powerwall would pay for itself in 2-3 years just in food cost. Not to mention quality of life increase, that even during those outages, you can run limited lighting along with your refrigerator needs.

Another Powerwall would take you over the edge where you likely could run most of your life during an outage on a limited basis, as long as you had a source of heat. Lilkely your Gas service would still work in the described outage, so heat is still reasonable and you can run a central gas furnace.
 
You are not going to find many supporters here to the notion that the best use of resources is for the utility to (basically) control the energy from the sun, then sell it to users, instead of them doing it on their own homes.


I don't think you'll find many supporters anywhere in Northern California (except for the politicians that are paid off by the IOUs and the employees of those IOUs) that would ever relate the words "efficient" and "utilities".

PG&E says the payback on residential solar installations is too high... and they are demanding solar homeowners to pay outrageous fees to make the homeowner's ROI less favorable. You know your local utility is not efficient when they need to push stupid fees and outrageous red tape onto homeowners who try to do their own generation and storage.
 
Not to mention quality of life increase

I don't know why clean energy companies avoid advertising and messaging about QoL. Now that almost every homeowner in Northern California has been pushed to a time of use plan (excemption made to medical baseline folks), PG&E is unrolling their "power down 4 to 9" BS in a big way by using energyupgradecalifornia.com as their sounding board.

If you call PG&E about your high energy bill, they'll give you some of the stupidest advice on your own behavior modification so you can fix your energy bill. They'll blame you for leaving internet routers plugged in... watching TV on a "bright" setting... cooking Dinner on electric appliances... actually trying to get daily chores done before bed... not using LED light bulbs... etc. Basically it's the homeowner who is the problem because they are "living wrong".

PG&E wants people to sit in the dark staring at an unplugged TV... drying laundry outdoors... using a lantern when they get up to take a piss... and hanging out at the mall instead of at home with the AC on. I posted an article a few months ago about a woman who was advised by PG&E to unplug her phone/hearing transcription machine as a means to help reduce her energy bill. And yet people continue to defend PG&E and think they're efficient.

This form of gaslighting from the utilities is so much baloney. It's not the homeowner's fault for having a high energy bill, it's PG&E being absolute trash for having a high energy bill. People need to start realizing PG&E has been filing numerous requests with the CPUC to make QoL go down while simultaneously increasing energy costs by almost 50%. The only way to just "live normally" is to get your own energy generation, ESS, and convert gas to electric. And yet PG&E goes out of their way to block those initiatives too. Total crap.

Maybe the CALSSA members have some sort of unwritten rule/agreement not to completely bag on PG&E too much... but they really should. PG&E is really that bad and shouldn't get a free pass. But I get it... PG&E pays politicians and CALSSA needs politicians in some capacity too.

Edit: here's a blurb from a PG&E flyer explaining how you're doing dinner wrong if you're cooking it in your own goddamn kitchen.
1638987756275.png
 
Last edited:
You are not going to find many supporters here to the notion that the best use of resources is for the utility to (basically) control the energy from the sun, then sell it to users, instead of them doing it on their own homes.
Well, I was speaking theoretically. My cells would produce much more in an open field than being half shaded by trees half a mile away because the sun stays so low. And if the utilities were well run and kept the lines in good condition I would have no reason to install my own generation. I grew up in a small, relatively poor, European country and we maybe there was one outage that lasted about twelve hours. And here I am many decades later in a major metro area with multiple outages every year mostly due to luck of maintenance of the local lines.
 
And here I am many decades later in a major metro area with multiple outages every year mostly due to luck of maintenance of the local lines.

I am having a rough time juxtaposing " I am in a major metropolitan area with multiple outages every year mostly due to lack of maintenance of the local lines" with:

Utility-scale solar and storage is the most efficient use of resources


Im not trying to pick on you (I really am not), but struggle with the idea of "they dont do it good now, but if they also had solar + storage they would do it better then", which is what it those two statements together seem to say to me. Perhaps thats not how you ment it, but to me at least thats how it reads.

CA has some of the most expensive electricity in the nation, and if we had "utility scale solar and storage" they absolutely are not going to lower rates, they will raise them, because "its clean energy and cost more, and we had to build infrastructure for it.
 
Well, I was speaking theoretically. My cells would produce much more in an open field than being half shaded by trees half a mile away because the sun stays so low. And if the utilities were well run and kept the lines in good condition I would have no reason to install my own generation. I grew up in a small, relatively poor, European country and we maybe there was one outage that lasted about twelve hours. And here I am many decades later in a major metro area with multiple outages every year mostly due to luck of maintenance of the local lines.


The grift in the USA is that the utilities make a guaranteed profit to offset all their expenses and depreciation. This means the utilities are incentivized to grab at the largest possible budget, since they make a guaranteed return when they spend that budget.

The utilities will always have a positive ROI; it is in their monopoly charter. The more they waste, the more money they make. The more people they kill, the more they get protected by the politicians they've paid. The more stupid their energy contracts, the more they can pass on to ratepayers.

Like take your solar panel analogy in an open field. The Power Company isn't building your solar. They are creating contracts to create liquidity for someone else to build/operate the facilities. And when these grifters do it, they'll pay numerous outsource vendors to wacky things. Like do you inspect pollen accumulation, perform an abundance of system checks, measure bird deaths caused by your solar, trench a turtle causeway, check for bears, assess soil runoff for drainage around the panels, etc etc etc? You probably don't but the utilities all budget stupid stuff in.

They'll want to pay the highest possible cost for all the raw materials and labor. When they overrun their budget, they can simply ask the oversight committes to approve more funds. What's the committee going to do? Tell the Utility to save money? hahahaha.

Interest groups all pay politicians (in every state; not just California) so they can all chow down at the sweet sweet allocation of money, They are the opposite of efficient. They are corrupt.
 
Interesting how they would pass that solar energy to you from their utility size storage if the grid is down between it and you.
I bet those eight outages would still happen no matter what, unless you have your own generator, solar, and storage, batteries.

And, for PG&E to tell customers to stop using electricity, their gas prices are also going through the roof, is ridiculous.
PG&E rates are high because they can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilotSteve
One downside at the end of the day with utility/centralized anything is how can we be sure it'll be properly maintained? You see nearly EVERY public project cut corners and PG&E has been proven to skip on maintenance and pay more bonuses so now, we want them to manage more things and depend on them?

I was watching a video about homes/sidewalks in San Francisco sinking because the developer only had to cover 10 years and now, those owners are out of luck...(not UCSF though...they built their foundation all the way to the bedrock since they know they're there for the long term).

You can add in all those high-rises in Florida which closed/collapsed (at least 1) where low maintenance.

When you have 'other' people deciding how to use your $$, it's never going to work out. I'm sure even our spouses questions anyone's need for 5 powerwalls <wink> <wink>...or in my case, even any energy storage to start with.