Whoa for real... I thought Cheers, Wayne was a signature or at least a keyboard macro. But you're typing that every single time? Very Impressive.
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Powerwall In Garage [what are the rules around this?]
- Thread starter franksayshai
- Start date
Whoa for real... I thought Cheers, Wayne was a signature or at least a keyboard macro. But you're typing that every single time? Very Impressive.
Nope, cancelled my paper B&W bill to save some trees and to deny PG&E an expense they can make a profit on. I'm sure they'll notice the missing few cents a month.
charlesj
Active Member
Thanks for the info. I wonder if that moment is just for a bare 2x4. If so, the wall 2x4 is part of a system connected at the top to all the others in that wall by the double top plate. Then you might have a sheer panel on the outside and perhaps stucco or other siding material. Now, what is that moment.
I don't think those are going to increase the out of plane moment capacity significantly, just like you don't count on the subfloor to increase the vertical load capacity of joists.Thanks for the info. I wonder if that moment is just for a bare 2x4. If so, the wall 2x4 is part of a system connected at the top to all the others in that wall by the double top plate. Then you might have a sheer panel on the outside and perhaps stucco or other siding material. Now, what is that moment.
Cheers, Wayne
charlesj
Active Member
Bending moment, not vertical load capacity is what you brought up, I think. That top plate, doubled will reduce those two studs bending out into a room by hanging weight on wall? Sheer panel will add stiffness in both directions similar to subfloor bending with thicker subfloors, I would think.
No, they just define the span, which would matter for a point or distributed (lateral) load, but doesn't matter for an applied out of plane moment. The span does matter for converting the applied moment into the lateral forces in the connections at the plates, but here a larger span helps by reducing the lateral reactions at the plates.
Sheer panel will add stiffness for in plane moments, and obviously will help some with out of plane moments, but it's usually ignored. You don't generally say that the subfloor thickness increases the vertical load or moment capacity of a floor system.
References to vertical loading example and floor system are by way of analogy, where the studwall and all applied forces are turned 90 degrees.
Cheers, Wayne
With transparent wood, it could be both!Is that a shear wall, rather than a wall you can see through?
Cheers, Wayne
The installers are telling me Oakland Fire Prevention Bureau is insisting on the bollards. I don't know what exactly the installers told them or how the conversation went (I only get to speak with the installers' customer service department who relays messages between me and their ops manager). I called Oakland FPB to see if I can speak with someone, to make sure they have all the facts, but that requires a consultation appointment with a Fire Protection Engineer, which costs $316.50 (30 minutes).
Here are the facts:
- The two Powerwalls are on the side of the garage, protected by the return wall, out of the normal driving path
- They will be 3' above the garage floor (and our garage opening is less than 7'6")
- There is a sprinkler system and a smoke alarm in the garage already, and a heat detector will be added
When the permit was initially issued in January 2021, there were no bollards in the plan, and I don't know why it had to go through FPB's review now, which suddenly added three bollards. That'd turn our 2-car garage into a single car garage. Our narrow street already has too many parked cars and many of our neighbors had their cars broken into recently (or catalytic converters stolen), so we really want to keep both our cars in the garage.
I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed (e.g., contact the mayor's office, file an administrative appeal, etc.). Thank you so much.
Honestly, this is a battle your installer is best equipped to fight. If the idea of a $300 consult is too much, and your installer is saying that the install requires bollards even after the education you gave them, then I'd say you just let it go.
I have heard of people remediating the bollards afterward. If someone spend a couple of hours and a grinder and a wrench and there will not be much evidence of the bollard.
Your other option is to make that consult appointment with the FPE, and try to convince them that the installation is safe with pictures, measurements and the upcoming code.
charlesj
Active Member
@notsure11 I wonder if the city building department would know the requirements or just goes along with the fire department without knowing why.
The gamble with that $316 is that either the installer was correct, or they didn't really chase it down with the fire department.
The gamble with that $316 is that either the installer was correct, or they didn't really chase it down with the fire department.
In Oakland, the ESS plans go to the fire department for review.
Thanks @Vines
I spoke with the installer’s customer service department today, and they said the Oakland FD was firm and basically told them, you’re either installing the bollards in the garage or moving the Powerwalls outside.
I suppose from the fire department’s perspective, they’re just going by the 2019 code (and the 2021 July supplement?) since 2022 code hasn’t gone into effect yet. But I don’t think 2019 code says you must install bollards if you have ESS in your garage — isn’t it only if ESS is subject to vehicle impact? I guess I could leave a ramp in my garage and then drive my car diagonally into the garage to hit the Powerwalls on the side of the garage hanging 3’ above the floor.
The installers are now looking into moving them outside. We are in Oakland hills surrounded by a ton of trees, leaves, and plants, so I honestly think it’d be safer to have Powerwalls in the garage where there is a fire sprinkler, but oh well.
I spoke with the installer’s customer service department today, and they said the Oakland FD was firm and basically told them, you’re either installing the bollards in the garage or moving the Powerwalls outside.
I suppose from the fire department’s perspective, they’re just going by the 2019 code (and the 2021 July supplement?) since 2022 code hasn’t gone into effect yet. But I don’t think 2019 code says you must install bollards if you have ESS in your garage — isn’t it only if ESS is subject to vehicle impact? I guess I could leave a ramp in my garage and then drive my car diagonally into the garage to hit the Powerwalls on the side of the garage hanging 3’ above the floor.
The installers are now looking into moving them outside. We are in Oakland hills surrounded by a ton of trees, leaves, and plants, so I honestly think it’d be safer to have Powerwalls in the garage where there is a fire sprinkler, but oh well.
famoruwa
Member
Oakland resident here with 1 PW2 that is installed outside the home near the backyard. Proposed to have it installed in the garage but apparently it wouldn't have been approved from what I know.
Thanks for sharing. I spoke w/the contractor, and now they're saying they can't install Powerwalls outside because the house is on a steep hill. So I now have to remove a cabinet in the garage, and they will re-install the two Powerwalls, side-by-side, 3' apart from each other in the garage and install bollards 3' from the Powerwalls. This will turn our 2-car garage into a single car garage. What a nightmare.
They also said they cannot mount the Powerwalls 3' above the garage floor, allegedly due to code requirements.
I dunno if it’s too late, but can you guys leave a public comment on the CPUC NEM 3 proceeding describing how difficult some California AHJ’s are making ESS adoption? Those clowns setting expansive green energy policy keep saying residential ESS is simple and relatively inexpensive, so future solar needs to be paired with ESS. NEM 3 effectively punishes solar-only.
As always, it’s easier said than done. But the CPUC currently thinks ESS is easy which is skewing their policy making.
If anything, NEM 3 should have a carve out so people who want ESS but cannot get it are exempt from being punished as solar-only.
As always, it’s easier said than done. But the CPUC currently thinks ESS is easy which is skewing their policy making.
If anything, NEM 3 should have a carve out so people who want ESS but cannot get it are exempt from being punished as solar-only.
I don't know why they couldn't install them outside. That's what their CAD team told the customer service team, and it's impossible to get any details from this company. The installers did mount the Powerwalls 3' above the garage floor though. Now waiting for them to submit a revision application.
