robby
Member
I don't think that's right. The figures quoted are in kW, not kWh, so I suspect those are yearly or seasonally expected revenue numbers based on average power output during demand events.
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Powerwall in New England ?
- Thread starter masam
- Start date
I don't think that's right. The figures quoted are in kW, not kWh, so I suspect those are yearly or seasonally expected revenue numbers based on average power output during demand events.
My mistake. Yes, they are in kW and the payout is based on performance over the year. Based on the estimates they give in the webinar, it looks very appealing. I never did get an answer on how this will interact with net metering.
Also, for those thinking about this, I’d like to give you a heads up that National Grid will in all likelihood make you pay for a new, slightly larger capacity transformer on the street (if they haven’t already made someone else pay for it).
My understanding is that Tesla is taking a cut of this and the net payment to PW owners will be $220/kW (so they are taking about $55/kw) annually. That's what I heard a couple weeks ago, before this was announced, but it lines up with some math I posted on Reddit here: National Grid Virtual Power Plant Incentive for Powerwall (MA+RI) : teslamotors
As I wrote there, it seems to be slightly unclear how they are handling the DG applications since it will likely push people past the 15kW single phase limit of the simplified app into the expedited app.
As I wrote there, it seems to be slightly unclear how they are handling the DG applications since it will likely push people past the 15kW single phase limit of the simplified app into the expedited app.
robby
Member
From Tesla's FAQ:
> If there is plenty of solar generation to recharge the batteries, then Powerwall could earn as much as $700 a year in MA and $1,000 a year in RI by participating in ConnectedSolutions.
They estimate 75 events per year. I can't see any realistic way that works out to $220/kWh.
> If there is plenty of solar generation to recharge the batteries, then Powerwall could earn as much as $700 a year in MA and $1,000 a year in RI by participating in ConnectedSolutions.
They estimate 75 events per year. I can't see any realistic way that works out to $220/kWh.
$220/kW, not kWh, 5kW continuous, 5 * 220 ~= $1000
The cost savings/incentive payments are all about shaving peak demand on the wholesale side of the grid and reducing peak transmission demand costs. Transmission costs are based on peak demand during peak events. kWh doesn't matter. Transmission costs are all about peak instantaneous demand.
It also depends on how accurately they can predict the peaks. Often times the peak hour isn't exactly when ISO-NE predicts, so they may need to start earlier/run later depending on weather, etc.
13.5kWh - 20% = 10.8kWh. They can either run all batteries at partial (~3.5kW) output for 3 hours, or stagger the run times at full output (run some batteries at 5kW for 2:10, and start a second batch an hour later). They probably wind up paying out less if they run all batteries at lower output (assuming all batteries are put into service for each event).
Liberty was talking about both approaches during the PUC hearings for their Powerwall pilot.
But the math does seem a bit fuzzy.
Eversource is also talking about bringing the program to NH, but I don't know how much detail has been announced.
I do not fully understand it, but I think this is all based on the ISO-NE day-ahead market, so the price is fixed the night before and they will commit to the 2 OR 3 hours they chose.
I suspect this is also related to the implementation with Tesla, as in it will be a batch the night before thing, not real-time.
I haven't really been following Eversource's plans, but I've been following Liberty's NH battery pilot.
If you read the final settlement filed with the NH PUC, especially page 9, there is definitely a question about how accurately Liberty can hit system peaks. Their ability to move forward with the second phase of the pilot depends partially on them hitting the peaks at least 75% of the time - http://www.puc.state.nh.us/Regulato...TARIFFS/17-189_2018-11-19_GSEC_SETTLEMENT.PDF
For Liberty, the exact timing of the system peak (both which day and hour) isn't known to them in advance, but they have predictions from ISO-NE. If they knew exactly when it was in advance, there'd be no issue with them hitting 75% of the peaks (if not 100%).
Hi all, new member and first time posting. I am the owner of a newly installed 14.4KW array/ two Powerwalls and I’m excited to see how they will perform. I’m currently going through the PTO process with Mass ACA and Eversource- if any of you have interconnected with Eversource, approximately how long did this process take? My Tesla reps seem relatively unsure of timeline and have characterized the experience as typically somewhat variable. Thus far, the pace has been a bit choppy and I have very little guidance as to how long it might take. Thanks!
jeffsutherland
Member
I'm still waiting on my powerwalls now for over two years. Every once in a while Tesla calls and says they are ready to install. Then they go dark. I've been communicating with my state legislators regularly and they keep me updated on how Eversource must agree to install. I can't figure out now whether Tesla is stonewalling or Eversource.
This seems quite odd. Am I right in thinking that the Powerwalls are being added to an existing solar installation? After a year of waiting, I was able to add a Powerwall to an existing third party solar install. I already had a net metering agreement with Eversource for the existing solar. The only delay was due to Tesla’s Powerwall shortage. The rest of the process went smoothly.
In MA, where things may be different, my understanding is that it's $100 KWh, or @200 KWh of installed battery storage, per year, that you will be compensated based upon whether the batteries are linked to the grid on a "targeted" basis, or some higher/lower amount of cycling throughout the year.
If anyone is seeing an electric bill, with volumetric calculation for storage, please chime in. That Tesla is suggesting a ~7KWh Powerwall can receive $700 jives with the "capacity" form of compensation, in electric rates. This would work in the opposite direction of instantaneous "Demand Charges".
When states set targets for batteries, they have been in capacity terms, not volume. For example, CA = 1.3 GW. Though residential compensation may sound volumetric, based upon "KWh", I believe what they're getting at is the potential KW output suggested by 1 KWh of batteries.
It's measured as the average kW you discharged from the battery during all of the time that they asked you to discharge for demand response reasons, then multiplied by $220/year. So it could be as high as 5kW per PW2, if the events were short enough to get full output, but they are not so it will likely be more like 3-4kW between the length of the discharge calls and the 20% reserve, which is how they come to $700.
I got the paperwork for mine and signed it early last week (which included an extra Tesla agreement that details exactly how this is paid), but seem to still be waiting for National Grid to approve it. Hopefully any day now as every event I miss is eating away at the annual average for the first year. Tesla is forcing you to opt for National Grid to pay Tesla, and then Tesla will pay you at the end of the annual period which is something like 5/28 each year. Not super thrilled with that as I do not 100% trust them, but no other real practical options.
Looks like NationalGrid has finally put something up on their site: ConnectedSolutions | National Grid
Full program guide which describes exactly how its calculated (note this is what NationalGrid pays Tesla, but Tesla takes a cut before passing it along to you): https://www.nationalgridus.com/medi...olutions-for-small-scale-batteries-v16-ma.pdf
Full program guide which describes exactly how its calculated (note this is what NationalGrid pays Tesla, but Tesla takes a cut before passing it along to you): https://www.nationalgridus.com/medi...olutions-for-small-scale-batteries-v16-ma.pdf
I would consider 1-2 powerwalls if I could just break even over say 10 years.
Can you share what you do know and what your numbers look like with these new plans?
Hi - wondering if you have any updates on your installation? My mom is looking to install 2 Powerwalls in Acushnet but is being told by Tesla that they're not approved by EverSource and don't have a timeline for that approval. I am currently trying to get details from EverSource but this is proving quite difficult.
I have a Powerwall in Falmouth MA and Eversource is electric provider so I am pretty sure that Eversource has approved their use in MA. I am also adding a second powerwall and have an install date this month. However the connected solution program is still not approved on the cape. Cape Light Compact is working with Eversource to have this ready to go by this summer. I would call Tesla back and ask for a better answer. Unfortunately this is still a bit of a “squeaky wheel gets the grease” situation.
