Powerwall in New England ?

[BJJDad73]

Currently looking at a solar panel install in Massachusetts. Have a high electric bill. Local installer is quoting me a 14Kw system with a 10Kw inverter to get 100% net metering. They do not offer Tesla Powerwalls. They do offer an LG battery but do not think they are worthwhile at the moment.

The idea of going with Tesla for cheaper panels and adding a few Powerwalls is tempting, but I'm not sure it makes sense for me at this time. I'm not really concerned about power outages - we very rarely lose power, and do have a generator if we do.

I'm more interested in the Powerwalls to charge during the day and pull from at night in order to reduce electricity costs. The local installer is not convinced it would be cost effective considering we have Net Metering in Massachusetts. I talked to him about the Connected Solutions program, but he thinks it's too new and unproven so it's not possible to accurately guess how much I would get back from that.

The local installer believes the battery option "is not quite there yet" and doesn't think it's worth the investment at this time.

I'm torn between going with the local installer, which I believe will get me a quality install with a better panel (likely Solaria) than I'll get from Tesla, a quicker install date, and much better support.

Or going with Tesla where I'd get inferior panels (Qcell) but probably more bang for the buck, a longer install wait time, worse installation and customer service, but perhaps cool battery technology that might be worth the hassle.

Interested in any feedback anyone might offer.

Thanks!!

 

[JWardell]

Well I'm rolling the dice with Tesla again, despite them dragging on for 9 months last year and pulling the plug a day before install last October.
I had contacted SunBug on several recommendations, and instead of scheduling an evaluation, they emailed back and forth for a week, and then stopped responding. It''s been 3.5 weeks and counting. I've sent reminders and contacted the other person. Crickets.
With the new lower prices, You just can't overlook Tesla. They are now HALF the cost of my initial quote in 2018, and less than half of my quote from New England Clean Energy.
So I made a new order for a medium system. Had a nice but very clear conversation with them today. They seem more confident they will succeed this time. Considering the new lower cost I told them I'll do whatever it takes, even if I have to replace the roof for 5 grand out of pocket.
We'll see.

He also tried to upsell powerwalls, and though Mass now has a little incentive, it's still nothing like we have for solar. I would be all over it if I were power outage prone, but my power NEVER goes out. My $250 propane generator still sits unused. Maybe I can finally use it to power the fridges while my solar is installed

 

[Gwgan]

If you don’t need Backup and have net metering then batteries do not pay. If there is a TOU plan and living within its confines would be uncomfortable then you could use batteries to be more comfortable.

For the sake of backup since we do get outages here in ME we are finally adding LG batteries. The trigger was the advent of the SolarEdge Backup Interface, without which only one of two inverters could be used during a blackout—a problem Powerwalls would not have. Also online shopping shows significant drops in LG batteries.

 

[VipulGarg]

Hello All,

My apologies, if this has been asked already.

I am located in Connecticut and my utility provider is Eversource.

I am in process of getting the Solar panels installed (not Tesla) and I signed the paper work. Solar panels should be installed in next few weeks.

I am also thinking about the Powerwall now. Tesla website shows Eversource credit of $3500/yr when purchasing with Solar panels but doesn’t show this if my panels are already installed. Why is this case? Also, how is Tesla calculating incentive to $3500/year. I am lost.

Can you please help?

Thanks,
Vipul

 

[jlv1]

We finally got through the National Grid permitting morass and have an install date in October for our Powerwalls!

We already have 8.9kWh (DC, 7kWh AC) of PE panels. The Powerwalls are purely for power backup (we are on an isolated power branch and get 3-4 outages a year, and we're often the last ones that fixed).

 

[RHinCT]

Tesla website shows Eversource credit of $3500/yr when purchasing with Solar panels

That is through the Connected Solutions program in which you allow Eversource to use your Powerwall to meet peek demand, but only between 2 and 7 PM, and not during an extreme weather event. It is an estimate.

If you have solar installed first the interface with the utility is part of that. I suspect that for the power company to draw from your Powerwall requires a different, specialized interface with the utility, some sort of box with the proper controls in place.

 

[masam]

That is through the Connected Solutions program in which you allow Eversource to use your Powerwall to meet peek demand, but only between 2 and 7 PM, and not during an extreme weather event. It is an estimate.

If you have solar installed first the interface with the utility is part of that. I suspect that for the power company to draw from your Powerwall requires a different, specialized interface with the utility, some sort of box with the proper controls in place.

Tesla controls the power flow from the Powerwalls to the grid. The electric company does not have any control over the batteries (other than providing endless red tape and permitting roadblocks ) . The Powerwalls include a gateway that Tesla uses for monitoring and controlling the Powerwalls. Tesla takes a small cut of the revenue from the connected solutions program.
Not that it matters, but, I'd be interested to find out how Tesla came up with the $3500 figure - I wonder it they assume 4 Powerwalls, perhaps ? The advertised summer rate for reimbursement is $224/kW. Assuming two Powerwalls discharging at 10kW continuously (5kW peak per Powerwalls) for each event, you can max out at a payment of $2240 just for the summer - this is not taking into account Tesla's cut (Winter rates are 50/kW and there are significantly fewer events). Based on my experience in the summer so far, most events were serviced at 10kW but we've had several events where the Powerwalls were only discharging at 6-8kW total (no, we weren't drawing too much power for household use either). I expect the average to be around 9kW for the summer, which will affect the total payout negatively. That being said, for us the main (only?) reason for the Powerwalls was emergency backup and they did very well during recent multi-hour outages.

 

[RHinCT]

When I change the number of Powerwalls the ConnectedSolutions number changes, $3500 for each. When I dug a bit farther on the Tesla site I came up with this: ConnectedSolutions offers Powerwall customers hundreds of dollars each year in exchange for allowing the utility to use energy stored in your battery during peak demand times on the grid. Tesla's estimate is the average expected over 5 years.

So an estimated average per year per powerwall of $700. I wonder if they take into account the location, and how stretched the grid is in that area? Some places might almost never have a stressed grid, while others may need to pull from the Powerwalls a lot. Which of course makes Tesla's estimates optimistic or pessimistic, and you will find out how realistic over the first five years.

 

[Tdreamer]

If the $700 number pans out, then the ConnectedSolutions program alone would cover the cost of the Powerwalls themselves in about 10 years, assuming $7k each. That assumes $700 is accurate on average, and extends for 10 at least years. And during that time, you have whatever other benefits having these batteries in your system offer. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[RHinCT]

Various power utilities are setting up large scale battery banks that do the same thing - feed the grid at times of high demand - just on a much larger scale. Tesla sells such configurations. And they are built because they make sense financially. So think of this as the micro version of that macro idea.

 

[Gwgan]

So much for adding LG Chem batteries. I thought the retail prices of batteries had dropped significantly based on simple google shopping search but the actual installer proposals are still over $20k for a two battery system. A two Powerwall system for $17k is much lower than it was but Tesla still does not install here. Local installers want $26k. These prices seem way too high for the sake of power backup, I’d rather get a hotel room.

 

[solarAddict]

I'm in Weston, and no, that's just PowerWalls connected to my solar array and working as a back-up for my house. No additional programs.
I believe the information you were given is correct. Tesla is part of the similar program with National Grid, but not with EverSource. Although I never checked, since I only need PowerWalls as backup power, as I live in wooded area where power goes down after almost every storm, and I have no gas for a generator.

yep. I remember when I lived in Wayland we had power outages multiple times per year.

 

[solarAddict]

Currently looking at a solar panel install in Massachusetts. Have a high electric bill. Local installer is quoting me a 14Kw system with a 10Kw inverter to get 100% net metering. They do not offer Tesla Powerwalls. They do offer an LG battery but do not think they are worthwhile at the moment.

The idea of going with Tesla for cheaper panels and adding a few Powerwalls is tempting, but I'm not sure it makes sense for me at this time. I'm not really concerned about power outages - we very rarely lose power, and do have a generator if we do.

I'm more interested in the Powerwalls to charge during the day and pull from at night in order to reduce electricity costs. The local installer is not convinced it would be cost effective considering we have Net Metering in Massachusetts. I talked to him about the Connected Solutions program, but he thinks it's too new and unproven so it's not possible to accurately guess how much I would get back from that.

The local installer believes the battery option "is not quite there yet" and doesn't think it's worth the investment at this time.

I'm torn between going with the local installer, which I believe will get me a quality install with a better panel (likely Solaria) than I'll get from Tesla, a quicker install date, and much better support.

Or going with Tesla where I'd get inferior panels (Qcell) but probably more bang for the buck, a longer install wait time, worse installation and customer service, but perhaps cool battery technology that might be worth the hassle.

Interested in any feedback anyone might offer.

Thanks!!

If you are interested in PW select the installer who knows what he is talking about. I collected references for about 10 local companies , interviewed 3 out of those 10, and only one was more proficient in the subject than me. One was not ready to discuss it at all, another one was telling me something similar what you are hearing, but I'm sure he was not competent in it.

 

[masam]

Not trolling, genuinely serious question here - Why would anyone get Powerwalls from a third-party installer ? (I'm not concerned about LG Chem or Pika or other batteries)

Since Tesla controls all the technology (including remote monitoring, software, warranty and possibly more), there's not much (if any) additional value that other installers can add. There are no moving parts, no wear and tear on these things either, so, there's no maintenance or regular checkups or whatever. Tesla is the sole manufacturer of Powerwalls, so a shortage in supply is going to hit everyone, including Tesls themselves who can prioritize their own customers over third party installers. And you are pretty much guaranteed that the local installer will charge more. For example, I found out that my solar installer charges $5k more than Tesla for the same two Powerwalls. (Needless to say, we went with Tesla as originally planned).
Just trying to understand. I get the motivation to support local business and that's the only reason that comes to mind.

 

[solarAddict]

Not trolling, genuinely serious question here - Why would anyone get Powerwalls from a third-party installer ? (I'm not concerned about LG Chem or Pika or other batteries)

Since Tesla controls all the technology (including remote monitoring, software, warranty and possibly more), there's not much (if any) additional value that other installers can add. There are no moving parts, no wear and tear on these things either, so, there's no maintenance or regular checkups or whatever. Tesla is the sole manufacturer of Powerwalls, so a shortage in supply is going to hit everyone, including Tesls themselves who can prioritize their own customers over third party installers. And you are pretty much guaranteed that the local installer will charge more. For example, I found out that my solar installer charges $5k more than Tesla for the same two Powerwalls. (Needless to say, we went with Tesla as originally planned).
Just trying to understand. I get the motivation to support local business and that's the only reason that comes to mind.

Here is my particular case.

I started the project with local installer last year prior to Tesla dropping prices or offering PW as separate install. I was planning to get one PW just for be partial backup. When I realized that I would pay much more for PW with them I had a second thought and made a deposit for 2PWs with Tesla. Two + months later Tesla was not even able to provide any date for initial follow up. I realized that I'm going to deal with two different projects, two application processes, inspections etc. On top of it I have to upgrade the service. Then COVID slowed down everything. BTW, still no updates from Tesla. Then out of nowhere my contact at installer company offers me special promo Tesla gave to selected dealers (btw I didn't mention it - the company I went with has more PW installed than anybody else is MA, and they are Tesla certified installer). I would had to get 8 320 W QCell panels and I would get very good price for 2PWs. With installation it would be few grand less than if I would go with Tesla. Second it would be done all at once (solar , PWs and service upgrade).

And as you mention feel good for supporting local employee owned business is not bad thing either.

 

[Gwgan]

Two brief outages today reminded me to post my latest info. Tesla does not service my area but gives a website price for two Powerwalls that is 50% lower than the one local certified installer. (Before incentives). No batteries for me this winter.

 

[Gwgan]

Powerwall prices just increased by $500. Surprised with all the increases in Panasonic production and energy density and overseas purchasing news lately.

 

[masam]

Powerwall prices just increased by $500. Surprised with all the increases in Panasonic production and energy density and overseas purchasing news lately.

Isn't this the second price increase in the past year or so ? Curious whether they are trying to manage demand by increase prices. I would have expected the price to come down (maybe just a little, not expecting a massive drop) at some point.

 

[PeterK]

Isn't this the second price increase in the past year or so ? Curious whether they are trying to manage demand by increase prices. I would have expected the price to come down (maybe just a little, not expecting a massive drop) at some point.

From what I've read it appears to be demand-driven. They have all the demand they can handle and more, so why not make more profit?

 

[jlv1]

A team of two showed up this morning to start our PowerWall installation. They left an hour later without doing anything.

Turns out our electric meter (a new netmeter from 5 years ago when we had solar PV installed) has a "connection lock" on it, and they can't take it off without National Grid's help. National Grid can't get here to do that until then end of next week, so our PowerWall installation is moved out another 2 weeks. It was already pushed out once before -- it was originally going to be last week (they didn't give us a reason for that delay).

Communication from Tesla on the PowerWall installation process has been mildly annoying. I sent them detailed pictures of everything, including the meter. You'd have thought that someone might have noticed this before the morning of the installation. I asked the guys who showed up and neither of them had seen any of the pictures I'd taken (of the meter, electric panel, etc). Do the people in Las Vegas just review those and don't pass them on to the folks in the field? It would have been really nice had they had someone out to do a site inspection or something before today. I asked (via email) and they responded it wasn't necessary.

Tesla said they would arrive this morning between "7-9 AM". That's a big window early in the morning. I was ready at 6:50. They showed up at 8:15. They were coming from 10 miles away.

Had anyone actually looked at the meter (or the pictures of the meter), they might have worked out they needed National Grid's help *before* the early morning install date.

We have other work going on (we're in the middle of a kitchen remodel) and had to delay the beginning of the flooring work from Wednesday to Thursday because Tesla had emailed saying the PowerWall installation would take 2 days, with out out on the 2nd day. Thus, we were expecting no power tomorrow. The guys who arrived said it would all be done in one day (had it happened). Had that been the case, we wouldn't have needed to have moved the flooring folks schedule around. We certainly didn't expect to have to be without power today.

Sigh. Just a bit of frustration to vent.