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Powerwall mounted inside or outside?
- Thread starter Shygar
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- Powerwall Tesla Energy
Clearance for what? You could install them side by side on the ground or off the ground. Doesn't seem like that's a real concern. Stacking them on the ground will stick out more, maybe that's the concern?
Tam
Well-Known Member
They can be hung just like an artistic picture on the wall as well if they want clearance on the ground level.
If they are on the ground and 2 cars are in the garage opening car doors might hit them if mounted on the ground level.
If so, just demonstrate autopark/summon.
Merrill
Merrill
So I want to install 2 Powerwalls outside in a protected northeastern exposure that is mostly shaded from the roof overhang. I’m in Sonoma and in the winter lows of 45 and highs of 55 to 60 and in the summer lows of 55 and highs of 80 to 90. If I put them in my garage it will be 100 feet of conduit to the service panel whereas outside maybe 6 feet. Wondering if the outside will work.
Merrill, you should have no trouble mounting them outside. I am in the San Bernardino mountains and my Powerwalls are mounted outside on the back of my house. Temperature in the winter can get down to the teens and in the summer the high 90s. I have had the Powerwalls for a year and a half through two winters and one summer and have had no problems with the operation of the Powerwalls.
Merrill
Merrill
Thanks!Are you sure your garage is not tipping 40*C in mid-summer?
Say for example power is out and will be for 3 days. No AC.
Powerwall definitely needs clearance. Though more like 19" x 20" than 19' x 20'
I can gap open the garage-door to air it out worse-case. I'm also planning to find a combo gas+heat-pump water-heater to suck up the ambient heat in the garage.
I also have solar, so 3-days power-outage may not be a problem combined with the PWs. In all the time I've lived here 40C ambient (104F) in the shade happens only in the summers, and not that often.
So for my installation situation, it appears 20' x 20' x 7' is the mandated Zone design standard for residential covered-space two-car parking that is inviolable by any affixed obstructions such as water-heaters, washers, dryers, etc.
Being that my garage was somehow built smaller than City's requirement, they won't allow any else into the required parking-space. I don't think I can get a permit to convert part of the garage, as code also mandates a minimum number of required covered parking spaces.
I guess this is another instance of cities being far behind where building codes don't have carve-outs for green-technology -- except for solar and satellite dishes. The only inside grey-area appears to be 7' above the ground. Tandem, landscape mounting of PW2s that high? Does Tesla even allow that?
Has anybody else in my area, I'm sure you can figure it out with master-plan, been able to get the City to permit installation inside their garage?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
Mainstream answer is no. Powerwall Location: Eyesore vs. Performance vs. Noise
Mounting with distance greater than 5 feet from bottom of pack to floor require structural strengthening to the walls. Tesla can do that for you for quote "significant" cost to the homeowner. Tesla engineer said they avoid it.
Nicely request your city inspector to contact another city inspector in the county to form a consensus. I think the key issue is that parking inside the garage shouldn't be discouraged to the next buyer of the home (even if you plan to live for the long-term). Recognize that intent "spirit of the law" repeatedly, and be on your city's side. They could assess your garage specifically and surrounding parking availability, and may grandfather you.
Thanks, though non-stacked PW installation shouldn't be much of an intrusion to parking (PWs aren't that deep), especially if it's above normal door height (of a normal sedan). I've just noted in-garage car-chargers should violate this code, and I know of some homes with car-chargers already installed.
The walls are supporting a 2nd story room, so I don't know if that means mounting PWs won't be an issue.
I have pointed out mounting outside would be against the spirit of the code as gardeners/etc are already regularly violating that side of clearance, while the garage internal side-walls are generally out of the way of everything.
Realistically, just making sure I'd made best efforts before I settle into a final solution.
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
@NuShrike Update with installation. 5' height is a no go. 6ft 7inch height of the side switch on the battery packs prohibit the 5 ft mount height. Tesla is at my house now. I switched immediately to a double stack ground mount (located where the front/rear quarter panels) because initially wanted the 5 ft mount height to clear car doors.
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Thanks! I'll keep note of how high mine will be allowed. Good thing you thought of a backup option.
My news is City will allow my garage-installation as 6" intrusion from the wall isn't as bad as some may have originally thought. I'm wondering if knocking off some of the drywall to get to the naked studs should help more. Deep April/May PTO for a Nov available stock?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
@NuShrike Seems like keeping the wall intact might be a requirement. If there is living space on the other side of the wall then, two sheets of drywall may be needed for fire rating. As an example, childhood home had exposed framing in the garage. The unfinished sheetrock existed only where the other side was living space.My news is City will allow my garage-installation as 6" intrusion from the wall isn't as bad as some may have originally thought. I'm wondering if knocking off some of the drywall to get to the naked studs should help more. Deep April/May PTO for a Nov available stock?
Hi all.. If I can bump this...
In New Zealand. Just signed up for a solar install + Powerwall. The ideal place for the battery would be in our laundry, along with the inverter, gateway etc. right next to the distribution board. Out of the main living areas and cool.
My installer seems rather vague about this - first it was "they're not allowed in living areas" although what actually amounts to a living area he wasn't sure. Then it was "they're not allowed in through-ways", whatever that means. Then it was "I've checked with someone and it's OK," though who he'd checked with he wouldn't say. All not very confidence building.
So I checked with my local council re building regs. and the guy I contacted initially hadn't a clue. Presumably it's not a question they get very often. So I supplied a copy of the Powerwall Installation Manual. Eventually they came back with:- "There is nothing in the Building Act or Building Code that deals with the location of batteries, but most of the ones I have seen have been in the garage or outbuildings. I would suggest discussing with the supplier." Which... Well...
The Powerwall installation manual states, on p.9, that US and Canadian Building regulations require a Powerwall installed in a dwelling to be accompanied by a smoke alarm, but a YouTube video I watched (can't recall which one) mentioned in passing that you're not allowed to install a Powerwall in a dwelling in Australia - even in a laundry!
So, anyone any idea what the position is in New Zealand?
I would have thought there was a far higher risk of fire from the Inverter rather than the battery, and there seems to be no problem putting that next to the distribution board in the laundry. If there's nothing stopping me from installing it in the laundry it would avoid a whole heap of complications running live, high-voltage cables about the place from inverter to battery to distribution board but the only thing that does give me pause is emissions. Does the lithium-ion Powerwall give out emissions like a lead-acid battery, which are dangerous unless well ventilated? Might potential emissions inside a dwelling be a problem?
In New Zealand. Just signed up for a solar install + Powerwall. The ideal place for the battery would be in our laundry, along with the inverter, gateway etc. right next to the distribution board. Out of the main living areas and cool.
My installer seems rather vague about this - first it was "they're not allowed in living areas" although what actually amounts to a living area he wasn't sure. Then it was "they're not allowed in through-ways", whatever that means. Then it was "I've checked with someone and it's OK," though who he'd checked with he wouldn't say. All not very confidence building.
So I checked with my local council re building regs. and the guy I contacted initially hadn't a clue. Presumably it's not a question they get very often. So I supplied a copy of the Powerwall Installation Manual. Eventually they came back with:- "There is nothing in the Building Act or Building Code that deals with the location of batteries, but most of the ones I have seen have been in the garage or outbuildings. I would suggest discussing with the supplier." Which... Well...
The Powerwall installation manual states, on p.9, that US and Canadian Building regulations require a Powerwall installed in a dwelling to be accompanied by a smoke alarm, but a YouTube video I watched (can't recall which one) mentioned in passing that you're not allowed to install a Powerwall in a dwelling in Australia - even in a laundry!
So, anyone any idea what the position is in New Zealand?
I would have thought there was a far higher risk of fire from the Inverter rather than the battery, and there seems to be no problem putting that next to the distribution board in the laundry. If there's nothing stopping me from installing it in the laundry it would avoid a whole heap of complications running live, high-voltage cables about the place from inverter to battery to distribution board but the only thing that does give me pause is emissions. Does the lithium-ion Powerwall give out emissions like a lead-acid battery, which are dangerous unless well ventilated? Might potential emissions inside a dwelling be a problem?
Ulmo
Active Member
- In Pleasant Hill, the summer months in the sun will be too hot for it, and it will degrade quicker.
- In California, night times can be cold, causing dendrites to grow more and require more heating to keep it warm enough, and it might degrade quicker and will use more energy to heat it.
- It takes more space inside if you put it inside. You need ventilation clearance and the ability to easily access it by workmen where ever you put it. You need to keep it free of dust and other dirt in the environment. So, no tucking it behind stuff, no storing stuff around it, no working with dusty tools near it, etc.
- Outside it is subject to more vandalism.
- Tesla used to prefer it outside, but since decided to prefer it inside. I think this is because it gets less damage by bad weather from outside. Also, they finally realized vandalism wasn't an irrational fear once they heard of it happening.
- Where ever it is, in an extreme physical accident, it can cause a pretty severe fire. I see that being more of a problem from vandals outside than when inside, but either way, any physical accident enough to break the box could trigger it. They are pretty strong boxes, so this must be something super extreme.
The ideal space would be a purpose-built insulated and temperature controlled and properly dehumidified (not much humidity, but the minimums should be met) utility shed close to the house far from bedrooms. Another word for that for most US homes is the garage, but keep in mind, in many climates, the garage would not qualify exactly for what I said without work. For similar reasons to PowerWalls, I've long been a loud advocate for turning garages into insulated thermally conditioned rooms just like the rest of the home (but with separate air to air out car greases), since Lithium Ion battery cars put out way less pollution AND want to be in a much tighter temperature range for maximum longevity and use (bad dendrites form in low temperatures, and battery gets bad in high temperatures too, and optimum charging temperature is somewhere around room temperature -- I haven't memorized the correct number). That also allows your car to avoid having to self-climatize every time you want to use it when you go to use it. That means insulating the garage in a way you never have, and that means learning things about floors like you can't drive on unsecured floors (unsecured plywood would fly out from under cars like missiles and decapitate your family -- I learned this the hard way when I raised a truck up with plywood, and luckily the only thing hurt was the truck and some garage doors -- and it was the first time I tried it, so I doubt any type of freak accident -- that flooring has to be solidly part of the ground to be used for vehicles), yet you would need to insulate the floor, all cracks, windows, doors, walls, and roof, and at the same time take the weight of a multi-ton vehicle without hurting anyone. Fun construction to be sure.
This really should be kept in mind when building a new home every single time. Huge utility sheds (one for power and one for communication, and obviously both quite large), well insulated, well thermally controlled, and the same for garages that are 100% electric vehicles, with good ventilation, since those cars still have greases and other fumes, but a tiny fraction of ICE cars. Since most homes were designed wrong for the modern age we live in of home batteries and battery cars, that means we thus need to be smart about how we build upgrades to existing structures to handle current uses (and future uses too).
A nice option for decent land sizes with existing structures on them I did hint at above: put in a nice shed. But that could quickly add up to mass frustration as you realize how expensive that option is, and how insufficient your shed size is once you add in your second solar array, your third battery pack, and the two dozen panels you have to build and the network of large conduit required to support all that and all the 3' servicing requirements and ventilation required. I want to say you better be building a green house for your wife twice as large, but that could be like buying cooking dishes for a birthday: a message to slave in the garden. You better find out what the gift is that offsets all the space taken by yet another machinery room (in addition to the garage, HVAC, water heater, air conditioner, computer, office, television, kitchen, laundry room, garden tools, workshop, and every other machine room you already messed up your property with in the opinion of your spouse who doesn't quite think those things are so lovely or fun).
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Ulmo
Active Member
If you read my recommendations above, then you probably would come to similar ideas as I would: what about building a fire-resistant/fire-proof shed by the garage with copious surround insulation, proper dehumidification and temperature control? You could claim it is not part of the "living" space. In fact, once you fit the letter of the law, it seems it would also go way beyond what most people do to obtain the intent of the law, and would bring a grin to the inspector's faces. If not, then they're soulless ghouls meant to gouge you, and you can practically just ignore them anyway ...
That is, if you build it right. That in itself could open up a small can of worms by itself. Proper conditioning and packing of soil, placing vapor guards and insulation, good footings, proper foundation, and it goes on and on. Realize you will pack it chock full of things, and you will never have enough room, and you will enlarge it over the years, and then think what the three foot minimum workspace requirement means, and the very minimum size of that shed would quickly be realized to be quite large. (I.e., you can't buy a shelf from the local hardware store and expect it to suffice.) Large land owners use Chinese container ship containers for a reason, but even they would best be wrapped all the way around by insulation (probably with an initial insulated pad underneath then insulation emanating up walls around the container, and a layer of two inch rebar'd concrete around that to stop fires, or something), then thermal control. Most suburban homes don't have enough space to make one of those look chic.
Exactly! Bold emphasis mine: I agree with them. That is a far advanced opinion built upon years of experience now that Tesla has experience with batteries, upgraded from their original opinion that "mounted outside is OK too", which it turns out it sort of isn't as much as they wanted it to be. So, "in the garage or outbuildings" might sound kind of random and not trying very hard, but it actually is a well-learned lesson and a vast upgrade from prior knowledge. I heard it here on TMC that now Tesla prefers PowerWalls inside the garage (or well appointed utility shed, even better). A lot of Tesla's original advertising featured PowerWalls outside, and now you will note that most of their advertising shows them inside garages or inside utility closets. That's for a reason. Of course, now that the message has been communicated, I'm sure the sales staff will forget this whole lesson and just print whatever on their brochures, but now you know better.
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