TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

Powerwall Move / Convince My Wife Powerwalls are Worth it

Discussion in 'Tesla Energy' started by StoicKiwi, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. StoicKiwi

    StoicKiwi Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2019
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    **TL;DR:**How much does it cost to move a powerwall to a new home? Can you provide any info that would convince my SO that having a Powerwall + Solar is worth it vs just solar?

    ---

    So I am mulling over getting Medium Solar + two Powerwalls at our home and my wife is really hung up on getting the Powerwalls. She doesn't see the value in having them vs just having solar. Her biggest concern is whether or not the Powerwalls could come with us if we decided to move.

    I found some vague info from Tesla saying that the Powerwalls could be moved to a new residence for a fee but it doesn't list the fee anywhere and doesn't offer in-depth details. I reached out to Tesla for more info but they seemed almost rabid for my cell phone number to call me and discuss rather than chat and I'm not ready for all that yet.

    Does anyone have experience with getting Tesla to move a Powerwall to a new home?


    Can anyone offer me any saved-my-bacon stories or just general awesomeness for Powerwalls that could convince my wife that there is more value in Powerwalls past very long-term money savings?
     
    • Like x 1
  2. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    I think of the solar panels and my Powerwall like a generator - they stay with the house if (when?) we move but they're a value add to the sale price like any other house improvement or addition. Whenever we do move to a new home I'm 100% getting solar + Powerwall(s) installed because they're awesome.

    Our situation is a bit unique because the decision to get solar + Powerwalls was purely based on back up power. Our local utility has very low rates, full net metering, and no time of use charging which means time of use shifting doesn't do us any good. I did the math compared with a standby home generator and the solar + Powerwalls came out ahead on almost every aspect.

    We've had a handful of outages here and the Powerwall makes it so that we have almost no impact to our life. Don't have to worry about heat, lights, entertainment or whatever during short outages. It feels strangely good to have the big screen TV on when the rest of the neighborhood is dark (don't hate me, neighbors!). Food won't spoil during longer outages. Here in the pacific northwest even a medium sized earthquake could easily knock out power and natural gas service for a good while - the solar + Powerwall makes it so we could pretty much run on our own indefinitely during an emergency. The covid19 work from home stuff makes it more interesting: there was a pretty large (3k homes) outage in the city next door earlier this week and some coworkers said they had to sign out for the day because they lost internet and had limited power left on their laptop batteries. If that happened here I could keep on truckin'.

    I went with a certified local installer after getting 4 bids including Tesla's, though Tesla would have subbed it out to one of the other 3 since they didn't have any local presence. I imagine each locale has varying levels of competence. :)

    Ninja edit: here is my story from last year Just completed a 16 hour grid outage simulation. I'm very pleased.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 2
  3. Jeffgtx

    Jeffgtx Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    West coast
    Adding powerwalls is one of the best decision i have ever made as a homeowner. You are no longer at the mercy of any power outage. If installed correctly, you will never know the power is out unless you get a notification on your phone.

    The powerwalls are $6k each or whatever. You will either be able to use that as a selling point when selling the house, or take the boxes with you. Assume the fee for transfer will likely be equivalent to the installation charges. You will need to have your next house wired and ready, so it will likely be the same as when you did it the first time, assuming no major electrical differences.

    Do it now while there are some incentives to get money back.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. Sonus

    Sonus Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    #4 Sonus, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
    +1

    You don't need to move them you should be able to get the full value on a new system a the time of the sell back when you sell your home.


    If you insist on moving them i assume (i don't really know) that moving them will be around 40% of the cost of a new system. With permits, installations, transit etc...
     
    • Like x 3
  5. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure This All Out

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    4,297
    Location:
    Northern California
    Move to rural California. One PSPS and that will do it. :D
     
    • Funny x 6
  6. getakey

    getakey Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    Messages:
    972
    Location:
    95762
    I would not move them. Prices will drop, so you probably won't get full value, but at the same time cost to buy and install new at new home will be less also.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  7. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,603
    Location:
    Northern California
    Don't have to be rural. I am near the Tesla factory in a suburban city of 60,000 and went through 4 days of power outages last Fall. Closest fire was 50+ miles away. PG&E shuts off power whenever a red flag warning appears. Those events are reason we ordered Powerwalls with the SolarGlass roof..
     
    • Like x 1
  8. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    7,114
    Location:
    Riverside Co. CA
    As others said, you should think of them like adding a physical improvement to the home, that stays with the home. Its basically part of the structure, so you wouldnt move it, but you can likely charge more for the home because of it. How MUCH more depends on where you are, etc... just like most other home improvements (like a pool, or something).

    Consider it like trying to take a pergola or something with you when you move (or a screened in porch, or a nice back yard shed).

    Ask a local realtor if solar or solar + powerwalls increases value in your specific area, and if so by how much.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  9. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    USA
    I agree with your wife. I wouldn't get a power wall unless you have time of use billing and can offset the cost of the power wall by shifting your power usage to when electricity is cheaper. Don't get hung up on value add for your house - it's only a value add if the buyer is willing to pay more for that feature, and if its a buyer's market, good luck getting anything for it.

    But if you're in CA and can get the sweet power wall deals, buy a dozen of them
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  10. Sonus

    Sonus Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    #10 Sonus, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
    I disagree with that.

    PWs are not making sense financially yet, but not everything you buy should make financial sense.

    Having the ability to not worry about outages is a huge benefit.
    Even if you don't have power outages at all by buying a PW you support the people who do have power outages and need them because the more people buying PWs the prices will go down and quality will go up.
    Buying a PW gives you the ability to run off the grid, being green is also a benefit for some.

    I have 2 PWs, I don't have power outages at all where i leave unless PG&E shut off power because of fires.
    With 2 PWs I run my house off the grid and it makes me feel good which is for some more important than money.

    When i decide to move houses in the future i will be happy to pay more for a house with PWs.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    I disagree on both points as well.

    Doesn't matter if a market is a buyer's market or seller's market when you look to put your house up for sale. The Powerwall + solar is an improvement and a house that has it is certainly worth more than one without. Just how much depends on a whole host of factors, not the least of which is the actual buyer. If your area does ToU pricing then the Powerwall actually provides cost savings - this isn't like a pool that sucks cash or is a liability if its not in use which could be seen as a detriment to a buyer.

    To that point only a part of a Powerwall's value is ToU shifting, the other is the backup capability. We don't have ToU shifting but with the incentives and coupled to solar the Powerwall for me was much less expensive than a home standby generator.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  12. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,603
    Location:
    Northern California
    I factored in the "pissed-off" factor when adding the PowerWall, and the OP might also.

    That is how upset would I be staring at all that solar on the roof while sweating and not being to use my AC, computers, or TV because the grid went out. Because without the PW and gateway all those KWs of power my panels were producing would never power the house inches from the panels.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  13. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    Hah! I have a neighbor who just got a nice PV system installed and during our last outage I received a bunch of "pissed off" texts from him about how his solar system was just sitting there being lame :) (ok he wasn't really "pissed off" but we like to go back and forth about whose system is producing more, usually he wins but I have the Powerwall so I'll take the small victories during power outages)

    In all seriousness just do the math on how much back up power is worth to you. Would you pay $100/mo to be able to ride through almost any outage? $50? $500? Run the math backwards over a time period (I used 10 years, which is about the service life of the Powerwall) and see what comes out.
     
    • Like x 3
  14. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    USA
    #14 TMThree, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    Powerwall won't run my 5T AC unit. In FL, if there is no AC, you may as well be on the back porch. And if you're not in the house, then fridge is the only thing that matters to me. I can run my fridge/freezers on a $300 generator and save $10,000. It all depends on your need and what the alternatives are.

    Speaking of which, the new IQ8 series will let your solar panels power your house WITHOUT the grid.

    "One of solar’s biggest challenges is that it is grid tied. What this means is that if the grid fails and the sun is still shining, there will be no production out of your solar system.

    Most customers are unaware of this limitation with today’s solar technology. So, to address this limitation we have invented a microinverter technology that is completely grid agnostic. This means that even if the grid fails and there is sufficient sunlight, the Enphase system will continue to produce energy and meet the demands of the home or business."

    This further reduces the viability of the powerwall for my needs. Too bad IQ8 is still being tested and not released yet.


    That's meaningless. It doesn't matter what you'd pay for it. What matters is what others will pay for it. You only need to pay more than the next guy in order to buy the house, so unless there are enough shoppers who desire the feature and are bidding on your house, it won't help boost the sale price.

    For example, in my area, Solar isn't a big thing yet. Few houses have it, there isn't expectation for it, so most realtors won't even bother marking up a house for it since it won't draw enough buyers to boost the sale price.

    Solar is worth it enough to me that I just installed a 17kW system, but I'm under no illusions that its going to boost the sale price of my house for even half what I paid for it.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  15. Sonus

    Sonus Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    #15 Sonus, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    2 PWs run my 5T AC unit with no problems. i have a 7.56kw system with 2 PWs and i run off the grid.
    Maybe it depends on the AC unit but i can guarantee you that it can run mine. I only use it 2-3 hours a day for 2-4 weeks a year but still ...

    I have a whole-house backup, I don't even know when there is a power outage unless I look at the app notification and i like it. For me that was the only reason I got PWs.

    Last year when they cut power for 4 days my pool went green and it was expensive to fix. So this year when they cut the power again I know I already save a lot. Each with their own priorities I guess.




    It matters what I am willing to pay if I am willing to pay and I understand the value of a PWs system others are.
    Here in N.California, every third house have Solar so at least from my narrow point of view people seem to understand the value.

    Also, I just refinance my house and got a great value of the improvement from the inspector. you can clearly see from the report how they compare other houses with and without Solar.

    There is an exception to that, a system must fit the buyer's needs. for example, I (as mentioned above) have a 7.56KW system and for my needs, it works just fine. So there is no reason for me to pay for a bigger system.


    That is not true if you have PWs with your Solar. if the grid is down you still generate power.
    If you size your Solar and PW correctly the grid doesn't matter it is there for backup only for when your system fails.
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    USA
    #16 TMThree, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    Its true, because they were talking about solar. They weren't talking about battery backup. That came later in the article.


    A single powerwall can't do it. It will depend on surge power capacity. You get 5 kW sustained, 7 kW for 10 seconds, each. So if we're going back to the generator comparison - now you need to double the powerwall cost in order to start up that 5T AC. That makes it fair even worse.

    Hey, look, I paid cash for my tesla, I paid cash for my solar panels (17 kW). I paid off my house, I owe nothing on credit cards. I can easily buy a dozen powerwalls if I wanted. I don't have debts, I can go years without a job if I had to. You obviously care about having ease of use with your power situation - cool for you. But I'm just saying, financially, a powerwall is a hard sell when you can have your solar array power your home without one (with IQ8), or opt for a $300 gas generator if you needed to run you fridge for a few hours a day to make sure nothing spoils.

    A powerwall becomes more attractive if you can offset high cost electrical rates with lower cost hours by time shifting it, which I assume you have in CA. But that won't apply to OP unless he has it in TX too. I don't, my power is always 12c/kwh, which means a powerwall is pure cost. I can get a whole house natural gas generator for less than $10k installed that will power my AC and everything in the home - indefinitely. So it can power my house for much longer than your powerwall and will be almost half the cost of 2 powerwalls that would be needed to run the AC. The generator will automatically kick on when needed. But it needs maintenance, like oil changes.

    So the question is, what is the ROI on the power wall, and what is the cost and gains for alternatives to a power wall? If you can get the powerwall heavily subsidized or can time shift power to lower cost grid times, the powerwall can be attractive. It's also useful if you have limited power draw and fear extended power outages and want to stay solar-only. But that leaves a massive amount of times when a powerwall is not the best choice.

    I wanted to buy a couple of powerwalls, I looked at it really closely for a while, but it doesn't make sense financially for what it would provide me.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Helpful x 1
  17. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    USA
    I have a salt water pool system at my place. It would cost you less than $100 to shock the pool, including other chemicals to extend chlorine life and to fix ph balance. If you are recommending that OP drop $$$ on two power walls to resolve a $100 issue you had once, a year ago... that's what I mean about ROI. I go back to the fridge example - because a freezer of meat spoiling would be thousands in loss. It trumps your pool pump not running.

    PS: My salt water pool can go a few weeks without the pump running and it wouldn't go green, one of its advantages. ~$1200 or so to upgrade.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Funny x 1
  18. Sonus

    Sonus Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    First, i never said PWs have financial sense. they don't, for me at least.

    I have a saltwater pool with full automation, i run my chemical at the lowest possible setting of 2ppm, which is (in my opinion) the best healthy water for my kids. My computer make sure the pool stays under 2ppm. This is my choice I can run it on 6-8ppm and it can stay like that for a few days without electricity but when you run a pool as i do with minimal chemicals 4 days off causing issues.

    Back to the subject, PWs for me is about going green, about the ability to leave the grid behind and have peace of mind, they are expensive and will not give you any ROI unless you use them to control rates which also will not give you your full money back.
     
  19. GenSao

    GenSao Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    519
    Location:
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    The Enphase system still requires means to isolate the home from the grid (Enpower smart switch) and batteries to store energy (Encharge 10 or Encharge 3 storage system) when the sun is down. In addition, the IQ combiner (with the IQ Envoy), the Wireless communication kit, and associated wiring are also required.

    Without the Encharge batteries, the use of IQ8 micro-inverters for backup power is limited to daylight hours. The system still requires the Enpower smart switch, IQ combiner (with the IQ Envoy), the Wireless communication kit, and associated electrical wiring.

    Hopefully the Enphase system is priced competitively to Tesla.
     
  20. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    USA
    #20 TMThree, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    I'll remind you this thread is not about you. The title is "Convince my wife powerwalls are worth it"

    So "they are expensive and will not give you any ROI" makes me laugh. It will still depend if he can time shift, or if he has access to any large rebates to decide that. I don't know the answers to that.

    It still doesn't cost more than $100 to shock your pool even if you started with zero chemicals in the water. And that's paying retail prices at a store like Pinch a Penny.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC