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Pre-Heating/Cooling Does NOT use Shore Power?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by mknox, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I've had my car a few days now, and am observing that much talked about standby loss of roughly 1/2 mile per hour. What I wasn't aware of is the fact that when I use the phone app to pre-heat the car, it doesn't use shore power even though it's plugged in. I verified this with my whole home energy monitor...no change at all when I remotely turn on the heat, and range is further reduced when I go out to the car.

    This just seems counter intuitive. Why not use shore power to condition the car so that the battery is saved for driving and just maintaining the temperature? I would rather have the heavy lifting of adjusting the cabin temp handled by a/c power.
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Weird. My car most certainly does use shore power when plugged in and pre-heated via the iPhone app. I have the power logs to prove it!
     
  3. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Well now, that is curious. I've only tried it once, but here are the circumstances: Car was plugged in over night and fully charged in the morning. I used the app to turn on the heat while I stared at my whole home energy monitor. There was no change in the instantaneous kW reading. I went and grabbed a quick bite and when I came back, the monitor was not reflecting any added load, so I began to wonder if the heat in the car had actually turned on. When I went out to the garage, it was indeed heating and I could feel warm air blowing out of the door handles. My range was down a little bit too. I'll have to try it a few more times and see what happens.
     
  4. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    What EVSE are you guys using? 240V, 120V, etc.
     
  5. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    When preheating mine will use 'shore' power as well.
    Plugged in using NEMA 14-50.
     
  6. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    Mine does not. I have never left my house with a full charge in the AM this winter. My car charges up to full late in the evening (239) and then by the time I leave in the morning (after about 15 minutes of preheating), I leave with about 225-230 miles of range. Not particularly happy about that, as I feel something isn't right.

    NEMA 14-50, set to 40 amps. Draw about 39-40 amps. Get 20 mph charge (as I've noticed) at 239-240 volts.
     
  7. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

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    That has GOT to be a glitch/program error. Can't possibly imagine it's by design (on purpose). Preheating from shore power while you are getting shore power is the Whole Idea! ML
     
  8. kcveins

    kcveins delivery 2/7

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    There was a thread on this earlier - I can't find it right now.

    Bottom line was that just turning on the heater from the app when the car was fully charged seemed to draw the energy directly from the battery, but if you woke up the charger (such as popping into a range charge for about 30-60 secs and then dropping back to regular charge) then it would draw it from shore.
     
  9. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

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    The "draws from a fully charged battery" makes sense, would help keep regen from overcharging when you get going. But if you charged to 100%, you did so for a reason. Seems like a mistake to draw it down while plugged in. ML
    btw my charging experience comes from wife's LEAF. we choose between 80 & 100% instead of Std or Range
     
  10. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    UMC plugged into a NEMA 14-50.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have only charged to the "Standard" level, not a Max Range charge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'll give that a try next time. Thanks for the tip.
     
  11. aaron.s

    aaron.s Member

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    All -

    I have an Efergy energy monitor on *just* my circuit for the nema 14-50 outlet and it always shows a 660 watt draw (from 0) as soon as I start preheating my car in the morning from the iPhone app.

    Aaron
     
  12. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I'm using The Energy Detective and will be adding a separate set of CTs to the 14-50 circuit on the weekend. I would have noticed a 660 watt jump in my whole home monitor but did not see any change in consumption when the preheating was on (I can see individual lights going on and off in the home with this system).
     
  13. ModelS1079

    ModelS1079 Member

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    Kevin, I think mine is the same - not entirely certain and checking. I do believe I need to slip into Max range charge for a 30 seconds to activate the shore draw for remote climate control, else it draws on the battery. Let me know what you find out, please. I'll be at Service tomorrow for a few other things and will look for feedback there.
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I have custom instrumentation in my CS-90 at the office (208V 70A). It logs everything the charger does. When it's cold I always plug in, and at the end of the day I preheat and it always draws power from the charger.
     
  15. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I have the same behavior as mknox..although I haven't been able to use the iPhone app to preheat in the garage (no 3G coverage).

    If I go out to the car, it's nearly fully charged, and I just turn on the heat, my range starts to drop, even though I'm still plugged into the 14-50. If I switch to range mode for a second, then back to standard, the heating and charging continues until the pack is full again.

    Hope this is fixed in 4.3.
     
  16. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    just checked, my blink charging station turns on when climate control is activated remotely. it was not at a full standard or range charge though. I have not tried this with the UMC.
     
  17. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Exact same here. Note that 660W isn't enough to run the HVAC, I notice my charge slowly going down while preheating. The simple solution as mentioned above if you like to have a "full charge" is to flip it into range mode and back to standard...
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I believe you have to use the "range charge" trick to get it to use shore power. Use the App to select range charge, then start charging, then turn on the cabin heater. The cabin will heat up pretty fast and the range charge won't be anywhere near full (mine gains about 5 miles by the time the cabin is heated YMMV depending on temperature). Once the cabin is heated, stop charging and select standard charge.
     
  19. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    I think it's more you draw down the battery pack (because of heater use), and eventually the charger kicks on.
    For people noticing the current draw immediately, I'm betting they are not near a standard charge... It's basically the charging circuit trying to top off the pack.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Odd. I've had to do the Range trick before we got the App, manually via the touchscreen. Since the App came out, though, I've not had to do that. As soon as I turn on cabin heat, the pack heater starts (if required) and the charging station starts delivering power.

    Here's a thought... maybe it only draws shore power if it needs the pack heater???
     

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