Preconstruction home electrical set up requirements

[ilikebeef]

Hi everyone,

Bought a preconstruction detached home and have an appointment with the builder to talk about electrical upgrades. What are everyone's opinion on what I should have them install so that it'll be ready for me to charge my Model 3. I will definitely be upgrading the electrical panel to 200 amps.
I'm also planning to buy the wall charger unless you guys have a reason why that's not necessary .

I currently have a wall charger at my current house but I know you can't uninstall it

Open to all suggestions as my electrical knowledge is very limited!

Thanks

 

[Lon12]

I have three EVs with two NEMA 14-50 plugs on each side of the two car garage. That way it is easy to hang up a cable on each side and the plugs let you take the wall charger with you or upgrade later. Putting the plugs half way down the garage lets me run the cables out to the driveway when needed.

 

[DSolie]

Why only a 200 amp panel? if this is new construction getting a 300 amp panel is where I would be at. I am pretty maxed out on my panel after being in my house only a couple years. Added a hot tub, RV 14-30 for the trailer, 14-50 for the Tesla, Heatpump. On top of my other 220 needs of the hot water heater, well pump, ovens.

Now is the chance for you to get the bigger panel for just a couple hundred more.

 

[mrElbe]

There is no reason why the wall charger cannot be uninstalled. Either isolate the circuit or install a 50A breaker with a 14/50 outlet instead of the charger.

 

[Casmium]

There is no reason why the wall charger cannot be uninstalled. Either isolate the circuit or install a 50A breaker with a 14/50 outlet instead of the charger.

OP did mention he has limited electrical knowledge, in Ontario you would technically need to get a permit to replace the charger with an outlet, also if he's sold the house with the new buyer knowing it's there you can't remove it.

 

[pb2000]

Why only a 200 amp panel? if this is new construction getting a 300 amp panel is where I would be at. I am pretty maxed out on my panel after being in my house only a couple years. Added a hot tub, RV 14-30 for the trailer, 14-50 for the Tesla, Heatpump. On top of my other 220 needs of the hot water heater, well pump, ovens.

Now is the chance for you to get the bigger panel for just a couple hundred more.

Natural gas availability is almost universal in Canada, so heating, water and if desired even cooking and laundry can be gas. I'm on 100A service (with a hot tub) and after some load tests and a conversation with the city codes officer, I had no issue installing a 40A 14-50 (hardwired wall charger was a no-go).

 

[Tessaract]

Why only a 200 amp panel? if this is new construction getting a 300 amp panel is where I would be at. I am pretty maxed out on my panel after being in my house only a couple years. Added a hot tub, RV 14-30 for the trailer, 14-50 for the Tesla, Heatpump. On top of my other 220 needs of the hot water heater, well pump, ovens.

Now is the chance for you to get the bigger panel for just a couple hundred more.

I had a 100A service, which I upgraded to 200A because the load calculation with 50A circuit for EV charging came to 110A. A 300 service and panel seems like unnecessary overkill to me. Not to mention that 200A service is the largest residential service available here anyway.

 

[ilikebeef]

Thanks a lot for everyone's response. Greatly appreciated. Anything I need to request from the builder to make the installation of a wall charger easier?

Or should I just stick with the NEMA 14-50 plug?

Apologies if the answers are obvious.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Your new house should include a conduit run from the garage to the electrical panel as part of the new EV rough-in that’s required by the Ontario building code. That should alleviate some of the labour cost. Check on that with your builder. If you want to futureproof in case you want to get a second EV in the future you can inquire about running a second conduit from the builder.

You can definitely uninstall your HPWC from your current house if it won’t be included in the sale of your house. You can get an electrician to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet or figure out if it’s possible to just disconnect the line and cap it off as a cheaper option.

 

[dhrivnak]

I installed NEMA 14-50 plugs in my garage. And ther is no reason you can’t take your wall connector and you san even add a NEMA 14-50 plug on it. Just dial back to 40 amps which is more than enough for 99.99% of the time.

 

[zwz002]

Cost would be another factor, at least for me. Pretty much every single thing my builder offered me was really overpriced, like $15/sqft to change the color of the hardwood, lol... However, the NEMA 14-50 in the garage was the most reasonable one on the list. They charged me $500 and I gladly went ahead with it.

 

[SilverString]

Perhaps even a small dedicated sub panel for the EVs/garage with 300 amp service? I guess the main question is do want to charge them all at the same time...? That is potentially quite a load for a 200 amp circuit/service considering that you also have an entire house that will use it as well. Depending on number of A/C units, gas or electric, etc. you could need more than 200 at times.

I have two 200 amp circuits on separate meters - one for my detached "Garage" and one for the main house. This allows me to run dual HPWC without load balancing.

This is the right time to do this right at the lowest cost. Good luck!

 

[cdswm3]

Your new house should include a conduit run from the garage to the electrical panel as part of the new EV rough-in that’s required by the Ontario building code. That should alleviate some of the labour cost. Check on that with your builder. If you want to futureproof in case you want to get a second EV in the future you can inquire about running a second conduit from the builder.

You can definitely uninstall your HPWC from your current house if it won’t be included in the sale of your house. You can get an electrician to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet or figure out if it’s possible to just disconnect the line and cap it off as a cheaper option.

That requirement has been removed from the Ontario building code by the Ford government as of Jan 2020.

If the charger is screwed to the wall at most likely can not be removed unless it is specified in the sales agreement. Just like curtain rods and light fixtures.

 

[cdswm3]

A put a 60amp sub panel in my garage. We currently have a 20amp 240 plug for my wives Fusion Energy hybrid and I have a 40amp 240V plug for my Model 3. If we get a second BEV I would get two smart chargers that could load balance. We have a 125A main service and have no issues needing a service upgrade. (Pool, AC, Dual fuel stove, Electric dryer, (gas heat and pool heater) and all the other normal items).

 

[pb2000]

Perhaps even a small dedicated sub panel for the EVs/garage with 300 amp service? I guess the main question is do want to charge them all at the same time...?

OP only has a single M3 EV. That being said, a second 240V circuit isn't a bad idea, but a 6-15 or a 6-20 would be all that's required for the day to day.

That is potentially quite a load for a 200 amp circuit/service considering that you also have an entire house that will use it as well. Depending on number of A/C units, gas or electric, etc. you could need more than 200 at times.

As I said a few posts back, we use natural gas for all our heating(air and water), which in Texas probably accounts for >50A of your load. We also can get away with a single 2 ton A/C, which accounts for less than 10A including the blower.

I have two 200 amp circuits on separate meters - one for my detached "Garage" and one for the main house. This allows me to run dual HPWC without load balancing.

This is the right time to do this right at the lowest cost. Good luck!

Dual EV households are probably going to be pretty rare in Canada for the foreseeable future as our range gets cut by 30-60% in the winter, so it's less important that we have 80+ spare amps for vehicle charging.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

That requirement has been removed from the Ontario building code by the Ford government as of Jan 2020.

Oh, no way! I am not shocked in the slightest about it though due to that gov’s anti green energy stance.

 

[cdswm3]

Oh, no way! I am not shocked in the slightest about it though due to that gov’s anti green energy stance.

They removed a number of green initiatives for new construction in Jan 2020 as part of their "affordable homes plan". Than they say they care about the environment. How sad.

"
Electric Vehicle Charging – Deleted

This section of the OBC has been removed. The requirements for EV charging stations will be at the local Building Department discretion for implementation. This will save you some initial investment as a result of the buildings electrical service size not being oversized to accommodate the extra loads."

 

[Oveeus]

I think many have already commented about 200amp service to your new home. And even going further (assuming it's a possibility), might not be a bad idea down the road. Many residential services max out at 200amp, what you could do is to require having 2x200amp services (you'd have 2 panels at home) for a total of 400amp max. At least that's what the electrician who came to install our 14-50 plug told me about upgrading the service in the future

Of course, it depends heavily on what you'd be running and an electrician can do a proper load calculation to see if such service is needed.

However, I might be buying a lot to build a new house myself (the current house on it is pretty much a dump, but a nice lot), and I'm quite sure I'd be going that route.

The reason is simple, we are going full EV... meaning ideally we'd have 2 or more chargers, each potentially drawing 80amp each (80 for wallcharger and 50 for 14-50) if we were to max them out. That, plus everything that goes into a ~3000sqft home, AC, swimming pool, lil workshop/mancave... I might never really come close to using 400amp at any given point in time... but considering that it's a marginal difference paying now vs. upgrading down the road, if given the choice, I'd max it out for the sake of it and never have to worry about load ever again.

 

[pb2000]

I think many have already commented about 200amp service to your new home. And even going further (assuming it's a possibility), might not be a bad idea down the road. Many residential services max out at 200amp, what you could do is to require having 2x200amp services (you'd have 2 panels at home) for a total of 400amp max.

If 300A is overkill, 400A is insanity. I couldn't even deliberately pop my 100A breaker when I was doing load tests prior to installing my 14-50.

 

[Tessaract]

I think many have already commented about 200amp service to your new home. And even going further (assuming it's a possibility), might not be a bad idea down the road. Many residential services max out at 200amp, what you could do is to require having 2x200amp services (you'd have 2 panels at home) for a total of 400amp max. At least that's what the electrician who came to install our 14-50 plug told me about upgrading the service in the future

Of course, it depends heavily on what you'd be running and an electrician can do a proper load calculation to see if such service is needed.

However, I might be buying a lot to build a new house myself (the current house on it is pretty much a dump, but a nice lot), and I'm quite sure I'd be going that route.

The reason is simple, we are going full EV... meaning ideally we'd have 2 or more chargers, each potentially drawing 80amp each (80 for wallcharger and 50 for 14-50) if we were to max them out. That, plus everything that goes into a ~3000sqft home, AC, swimming pool, lil workshop/mancave... I might never really come close to using 400amp at any given point in time... but considering that it's a marginal difference paying now vs. upgrading down the road, if given the choice, I'd max it out for the sake of it and never have to worry about load ever again.

Having two or more EVs drawing 80A is just silly, in my opinion. There is almost no circumstance in which you would need to charge one EV at 80A to fully charge overnight, much less multiple EVs. Even requiring a 200A service for an EV is really only sensible if plan on foolishly simultaneously charging multiple EVs while drying a full load of clothes, running max AC on a 40˚C day, while cooking on all 4 stove elements, baking a pie, while your pool and hot tub are both in use... you get the picture. Do a load calculation and you'll see what you really need. The only reason 200A services are needed here is that the electrical code assumes EV owners are not smart enough to charge overnight when (almost) all other loads are quiescent.