They report 5% down compared to same time last year. Will take it, but so far demand a lot more inelastic than many of us hoped.Markets Insider: Gas prices have soared so high the US is now seeing demand destruction.
Gas prices have soared so high that the US is now seeing demand destruction ahead of the summer driving season
The average gallon of gas in the US hit a record high of $4.59 on Tuesday, about 51% higher than a year ago.markets.businessinsider.com
Meanwhile, EV owners are planning more road trips.
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Prediction: Coal has fallen. Nuclear is next then Oil.
- Thread starter nwdiver
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- Energy Environment Policy
roblab
Active Member
The picture is of a station in San Francisco with $6 gasoline. They ought to come up Napa Valley. We have it for $7! The lesson is that one needs to buy a Tesla and drive off cheap electricity: I have 66 solar panels, and I use 'em. Bwahahaha!
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I've always thought that demand is not very elastic. Most fuel is used for necessary travel... work, shopping, family activities, delivery, etc. Only discretionary use is vacation travel and even this is hard to curtail.
Would argue we could see substantially more reduced driving, but would need to see more European level prices. Many could carpool, but most not willing to be inconvenienced even at our current prices.
Over the decades fuel costs as a percent of discretionary income has decreased substantially.
Right, I still see people sitting in their gad car idling and listening to their radio. So, apparently gas is still too cheap. We should tax fuel like other countries instead of subsidizing to an artificially low price then sticking everyone with the hidden Healthcare cost of pollution.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Germany slashes public transportation costs to reduce fossil fuel dependence | The Optimist Daily
Continuing its accelerated measures to phase out Russian gas, Germany has reduced summer public transportation fees to 9 euros a month.
www.optimistdaily.com
In the energy standoff between Europe and Russia, Germany has taken many measures to accelerate the phasing out of oil and gas. It has resolved to make energy cheaper for homes and businesses. It has pushed plans to put solar panels on every public building by 2025. Now, Germany has cut train, tram, and bus costs to just nine euros ($9.56) a month for the whole summer to encourage people to get off of gas.
Unfortunately, Tesla Superchargering rates seem to have just about doubled in the last year or two, as well.Markets Insider: Gas prices have soared so high the US is now seeing demand destruction.
Gas prices have soared so high that the US is now seeing demand destruction ahead of the summer driving season
The average gallon of gas in the US hit a record high of $4.59 on Tuesday, about 51% higher than a year ago.
Meanwhile, EV owners are planning more road trips.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Supercharger rates have gone up a lot recently. However, they are still cheaper than gas by most measures, unless one is comparing to a Prius.
I charged at a new Supercharger Station (Lamar CO) last week that was at 43 cents/kWh. That works out to less than 13 cents/mile for my old S-60 or about 10 cents/mile for a Model 3.
For those of us who have home charging, or use destination charging on the road, the cost of Supercharging on a road trip is even less: we can start out with a full battery at our home electric rate and get home near empty, to fill up at home/destination. So, the cost of a road trip is not the distance divided by the Supercharging cost per mile. It is lower than that.
The high Supercharging rates will be a hit to the Tesla owners who don't have home or workplace charging. They may need to seek out cheaper Level 2 charging options, which can be a nuisance.
Exactly - and there are a ton of people who can't charge at home or work with reasonable rates, so keeping Supercharging rates less than gas/diesel is important in the long term if we want to keep on encouraging electric vehicle ownership.
Some stats from a road trip I took in April (SC rates are higher now):
779 mi
222 kWh charged (168 kWh at SCs, 55 kWh at home, 3.5 mi / kWh)
5 Supercharger stops (average $0.38 / kWh)
Cost to charge at home $0.10 / kWh
Total Cost = $71.40
Cost per mile = $0.09
So yeah, the cost per mile is good overall (especially charging at home), but it's pretty clear that Tesla is pricing Supercharging to do two things:
1. Stay marginally below the cost of a very fuel efficient car (At local gas prices of ~$5.50 / gallon, even a 50 mpg costs $0.12 / mi)
2. Add TOU to chargers near urban locations to encourage people to charge off-peak to minimize congestion at Superchargers.
It would be interesting to what the revenue and profit margin is for Tesla at Superchargers excluding and including operational costs.
Still, it's very hard for people to avoid comparing the cost of Supercharging / kWh to charging at home.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
50 mpg car? LOL
I had a 40 mpg car and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Tesla is probably getting hit with high demand charges which raises their costs.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Rival climate groups deflate SUV tyres in Glasgow and Edinburgh
Over the past three months, the movement to deflate the tyres of SUVs has spread beyond the UK, with vehicles targeted in Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and the US. The Tyre Extinguishers claim that about 4,000 SUVs have been “disarmed” around the world since they started their campaign. The group say they won’t stop their campaign until there is a complete ban on SUVs in urban areas, hefty pollution levies are imposed on SUVs, and well-funded free public transport networks are established.
Over the past three months, the movement to deflate the tyres of SUVs has spread beyond the UK, with vehicles targeted in Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and the US. The Tyre Extinguishers claim that about 4,000 SUVs have been “disarmed” around the world since they started their campaign. The group say they won’t stop their campaign until there is a complete ban on SUVs in urban areas, hefty pollution levies are imposed on SUVs, and well-funded free public transport networks are established.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Report: Electric vehicle sales will triple by 2025, sales of gas-powered vehicles already past their peak
Sales of non-plug-in internal combustion-powered vehicles peaked in 2017, according to a report by industry analysts at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, and have been in "permanent decline" since then as sales of plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles increase.
Sales of non-plug-in internal combustion-powered vehicles peaked in 2017, according to a report by industry analysts at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, and have been in "permanent decline" since then as sales of plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles increase.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Good long read on how Germany screwed up in becoming dependent on Russian energy despite many warnings since 1970
‘We were all wrong’: how Germany got hooked on Russian energy
Schröder has since been singled out for his role in creating Germany’s dependence on Russian energy, and getting very rich in the process. But the distinguished former German diplomat Wolfgang Ischinger recently argued that Schröder should not take the blame for giving the go-ahead to Nord Stream 20 years ago: most German politicians, he told the New York Times in April, did not question whether they were getting into an unhealthy dependence on Russian energy. In the article, Schröder made the same case: “It never occurred to anyone that this could become a problem. It was just a way of procuring gas for Germans, for Germany’s heavy industry, and also for the chemical industry, with fewer problems and disruptions.”
‘We were all wrong’: how Germany got hooked on Russian energy
Schröder has since been singled out for his role in creating Germany’s dependence on Russian energy, and getting very rich in the process. But the distinguished former German diplomat Wolfgang Ischinger recently argued that Schröder should not take the blame for giving the go-ahead to Nord Stream 20 years ago: most German politicians, he told the New York Times in April, did not question whether they were getting into an unhealthy dependence on Russian energy. In the article, Schröder made the same case: “It never occurred to anyone that this could become a problem. It was just a way of procuring gas for Germans, for Germany’s heavy industry, and also for the chemical industry, with fewer problems and disruptions.”
Large differences among the recent increases in the costs of powering gasoline, diesel, and electric vehicles
by Michael Sivak, Sivak Applied Research. This post examines the recent changes in the costs of powering gasoline, diesel, and electric vehicles. The expectation was that the cost of electricity had recently increased much less than the costs of gasoline and diesel. The reason is that, in the...
www.greencarcongress.com
The importance of diversification.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The importance of electrification:
The calculations show that the prices for March (the latest month with available electricity prices) increased greatly for gasoline (+27.4%) and diesel (+37.1%), while the price for electricity increased only modestly (+5.5%).
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Chevron CEO says there may never be another oil refinery built in the U.S.
Chevron CEO Mike Wirth says he doubts a new oil refinery will ever be built in the U.S. again, given the federal government's policies.
"There hasn’t been a refinery built in this country since the 1970s," Wirth said at Bernstein's Strategic Decisions Conference this week, when asked about the prospect of new capacity being added in the Gulf of Mexico. "I personally don’t believe there will be a new petroleum refinery ever built in this country again."
"Capacity is added by de-bottlenecking existing units by investing in existing refineries," he explained. "But what we’ve seen over the last two years are shutdowns. We’ve seen refineries closed. We’ve seen units come down. We’ve seen refineries being repurposed to become bio refineries. And we live in a world where the policy, the stated policy of the U.S. government is to reduce demand for the products that refiners produce."
It would make no cents (pun intended) to build a brand new refinery that would have a lifespan of at least 40 years. Lots of debate about electrification and climate time lines but sure thing that oil demand will go down by 2060. Also no one wants a polluting refinery in their backyard so not just government policies. Better to just keep refurbishing existing units.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
First turbine installed at world's largest floating offshore wind farm – which will power oil and gas
The first turbine is installed at the world's largest floating offshore wind farm in Norway – and it will power offshore oil and gas.
electrek.co
This would probably work in the Gulf.
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