Prediction: Tesla Pulls Autosteer Function Soon

[NoMoGas]

What is your trick? There is a big thread about it, and many people cannot get it to work - or hardly ever. I have tried in about 20 different spaces and only had it work once. My friend who has an S85 gave up after the 10th try. Definitely look forward to improved software releases in the future for this, because as it stands- i'll stick to parking on my own so I don't hold up traffic trying to get it to work.

Simply pull past ENTIRE spot at <15mph where your passenger door lies up with the front of the other cars drivers door, stop. Look for P to appear on dash, put in reverse and activate on main screen. DOES NOT WORK IF SPACE IS TOO SMALL, OR TOO BIG, and there must be a curb.

 

[wk057]

There is even a video of a complete fool filming from the back seat.

Advice from Gomez Addams - YouTube

"With God as my witness, I am that fool!"

Seriously though, did you read the disclaimer? lol

Cross-posting a tidbit I just wrote in the thread about my video:

Private property? Check.
Road closed to all other traffic? Check.
No bystanders in any potential path of the vehicle? Check.
Anywhere the vehicle could go at this speed that could result in injury to others? Nope. Check.
Passenger ready to brake, steer, or otherwise control the vehicle as needed for safety? Check.
Speed as low as possible 18 MPH? Check.
Tested with driver multiple times prior? Check.
Straight section of road that probably could have been done like this without autopilot in the first place? Check.

Now while I can't speak for anyone else not following the directions, I highly doubt that Tesla will pull the auto steer feature nor do I think they have any reason to do so even if people are idiots. It explicitly a hands-on feature. Pretty sure it'd be a media frenzy if they tried to pull it. I'd personally immediately remove the wireless connectivity from my car the moment I heard of such a thing happening and would not install any pending update until that craziness was resolved.

Long story short, the OP seems to just be a bit sensationalist in his/her views. And this is coming from someone (me) who probably is in the top 5 people on this forum who have been very critical of Tesla.

 

[wannamodels]

When TACC was released, we had some of the same discussions. It was clear that many people used TACC for city driving even though Tesla suggested that you shouldn't. Several people reported near misses and there were even a few videos. Some people predicted Tesla would prevent us from using TACC on surface streets and others predicted doom and gloom for either the stock price or litigation following terrible accidents. Neither happened. I predict this will be much the same situation.

+1!!!

 

[efusco]

Multiple posts moved to snippiness, please try to remain civil and mature folks.

 

[Jhall118]

If Tesla pulls autopilot, will you be refunding the price of my car?

I think people are forgetting that this is a feature they advertised heavily, and sold a lot of cars based on. To pull it would have a cost, and I think cost would be greater than a risk of bad press from someone using the system not as designed.

It also helps that the auto steer works REALLY well. No regulatory agency is going to pull it.

 

[skilly]

just curious....its clear that people overlooked the basic instructions on usage; however, did everyone miss the word "BETA" beside the feature?? Don't feel safe; don't use it.

Like it or not, that's what it was labelled...here's a great definition:

In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release.

 

[Ldub22]

If Tesla pulls autopilot, will you be refunding the price of my car?

I think people are forgetting that this is a feature they advertised heavily, and sold a lot of cars based on. To pull it would have a cost, and I think cost would be greater than a risk of bad press from someone using the system not as designed.

It also helps that the auto steer works REALLY well. No regulatory agency is going to pull it.

I think the only people who have discussed Tesla pulling Autopilot are the people who have posted on this thread (and maybe others) in order to fire people up and get us all talking about their own interests and posts.

Autosteer can be tricky, and you have to watch it. That pretty much goes for the entire act of driving. As long as we see improvement over time, I think that it is a great feature. As far as safety: if you set a regular cruise control, and don't pay attention, plowing through an intersection; that is no different than not paying attention to Autosteer and getting in a crash.

Welcome to the future! You still have to pay attention!

 

[Vitold]

Welcome to the future! You still have to pay attention!

The crux of the matter is that paying attention is not enough.

For one, reaction time is diminished when Autopilot is on and two Autopilot user interface is slow to alert a driver when it's unable to figure out where to go.
Given the limitations Autopilot should not be engaged in all situations. Some say that driver can make that determination but based on what - that it worked before in similar circumstances?

 

[Max*]

The crux of the matter is that paying attention is not enough.

For one, reaction time is diminished when Autopilot is on and two Autopilot user interface is slow to alert a driver when it's unable to figure out where to go.
Given the limitations Autopilot should not be engaged in all situations. Some say that driver can make that determination but based on what - that it worked before in similar circumstances?

For one, how is reaction time diminished? You, as the driver should be in control of the vehicle at all times. Your hands are on the wheel. Once you sense the car doing something wrong, you should react. Reaction time = unchanged. Fatigue = diminished.

For two. how is autopilot slow to alert the driver? You hear a very loud beeping telling you to grab the wheel when AP is confused. Never had it happen? Then don't post speculative opinions as if they're facts.

 

[Vitold]

For one, how is reaction time diminished? You, as the driver should be in control of the vehicle at all times. Your hands are on the wheel. Once you sense the car doing something wrong, you should react. Reaction time = unchanged. Fatigue = diminished.

For two. how is autopilot slow to alert the driver? You hear a very loud beeping telling you to grab the wheel when AP is confused. Never had it happen? Then don't post speculative opinions as if they're facts.

Your reaction time is diminished because your hands are NOT on the wheel and feet are not ready to brake. I don't want to speculate but since you ask, reaction time is probably slowed down by 1-2 seconds but it very much depends on a individual, type of the road and how long AP is on.

There are apps on the internet that measure reaction time if you want to measure yours but I think it's easy to figure out that time since you hear the beep to the time you have full awareness and control of the car is never 0. In some situations that's alright in others - not so much.

 

[Max*]

Your reaction time is diminished because your hands are NOT on the wheel and feet are not ready to brake. I don't want to speculate but since you ask, reaction time is probably slowed down by 1-2 seconds but it very much depends on a individual, type of the road and how long AP is on.

There are apps on the internet that measure reaction time if you want to measure yours but I think it's easy to figure out that time since you hear the beep to the time you have full awareness and control of the car is never 0. In some situations that's alright in others - not so much.

Your feet and hands should be on the wheel and brakes, right? If you follow directions, it clearly stated to keep your hands on the wheel.

A persons average reaction time is 250ms. You have to be very slow to take 750ms-1750ms to move your arms (assuming you're not following instructions) from your lap to the steering wheel. And if you are following directions, that's 250ms at 80mph is about 1/2 a car length before you react. At those speeds you should be leaving a lot more than 1/2 a car length to be safe .

 

[Just a Reader]

I do consider this thread as entirely legitimate. Auto pilot without any aggressive "nagging" is uncharted legal territory and it will come under intense scrutiny after the first major accident with auto pilot and a driver who was doing something else while supposedly being in control.
It may not be universally so but there are jurisdictions that require manufacturers to not only issue instructions on how their products should be used, but also to monitor (within reason) how their products are actually being used.
When half of the respondents in online surveys confirm that they are violating instructions and use auto pilot without keeping their hands on the wheel, then lawyers will argue that Tesla should have taken appropriate steps to counteract this dangerous use. Unlike this forum the court room will not be packed with Tesla fans.

 

[digitaltim]

There is no way that Tesla would release it then pull it.

Why? They disabled the lowest suspension setting in the early days due to safety concerns.

 

[hockeythug]

Ok, go tell that to Infiniti and Mercedes as well.

 

[tinm]

Just catching up with this thread.

I predicted this a while ago, in the Short Term Stock Price thread. The weakest part of the autopilot system lies between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.

Tesla, which always gets an F in communications, is once again failing to do the right thing -- communicate and educate drivers. Every single driver should have to go through a training video that appears in the car's screens before they're allowed to engage autopilot the first time.

Autopilot driving is a whole new kind of driving. Unfortunately every day more people buy Teslas, we increase the chance that some of them just don't get what they need to be doing -- paying more attention not less. When you drive on your own, it's up to you to keep an eye on everything going on in 360 degrees... full situational awareness.

Autopilot hardware begins to reduce people's natural tendency to at least try to maintain 360-degree situational awareness. The hardware and software are spun as augmenting that awareness, sure, and 99% of the time they do. But some humans are going to drop the ball... tune out... doze off... daydream... check their smartphones... fiddle with the 17" screen one second too long... and they're going to get into a situation that the software and hardware simply cannot handle.

Remember, if you drive an average (hypothetical) 60 minutes per day total, and do fine 99% of the time with autopilot, that means 36 seconds out of each days' driving might encounter glitches, unexpected scenarios, situations that autopilot can't handle. Are you going to be alert during those 36 seconds? Every single day, forever?

Now multiply that by tens of thousands of Tesla owners, driving every day in their autopilot-powered vehicle.

As I mentioned in the other thread a while back, I figure it's only a matter of time before a few drivers reach the end of their good luck streak, and bad things happen. I just hope we don't have another news cycle like we had with the car f*res a few years ago, that sent the stock into a slump. Tesla's not going to be able to add a tungsten metal bar underneath the car this time.

I also predict that long-term, DMVs around the country are going to start requiring autopilot training as part of getting a drivers license. Do you think airline pilots don't get trained on how to use and when not to use autopilot? Of course they get trained. Why should it be different on the ground?

 

[Just a Reader]

Proof? Link? Anything?

I've responded to that here already: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/55940-Will-Autopilot-force-other-manufacturers-to-accelerate-truly-hands-off-auto-steer

Makes no sense to discuss it in several threads simultaneously. Mercedes introduced the "nag" for exactly this reason.

 

[hockeythug]

Just catching up with this thread.

I predicted this a while ago, in the Short Term Stock Price thread. The weakest part of the autopilot system lies between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.

Tesla, which always gets an F in communications, is once again failing to do the right thing -- communicate and educate drivers. Every single driver should have to go through a training video that appears in the car's screens before they're allowed to engage autopilot the first time.

Autopilot driving is a whole new kind of driving. Unfortunately every day more people buy Teslas, we increase the chance that some of them just don't get what they need to be doing -- paying more attention not less. When you drive on your own, it's up to you to keep an eye on everything going on in 360 degrees... full situational awareness.

Autopilot hardware begins to reduce people's natural tendency to at least try to maintain 360-degree situational awareness. The hardware and software are spun as augmenting that awareness, sure, and 99% of the time they do. But some humans are going to drop the ball... tune out... doze off... daydream... check their smartphones... fiddle with the 17" screen one second too long... and they're going to get into a situation that the software and hardware simply cannot handle.

Remember, if you drive an average (hypothetical) 60 minutes per day total, and do fine 99% of the time with autopilot, that means 36 seconds out of each days' driving might encounter glitches, unexpected scenarios, situations that autopilot can't handle. Are you going to be alert during those 36 seconds? Every single day, forever?

Now multiply that by tens of thousands of Tesla owners, driving every day in their autopilot-powered vehicle.

As I mentioned in the other thread a while back, I figure it's only a matter of time before a few drivers reach the end of their good luck streak, and bad things happen. I just hope we don't have another news cycle like we had with the car f*res a few years ago, that sent the stock into a slump. Tesla's not going to be able to add a tungsten metal bar underneath the car this time.

I also predict that long-term, DMVs around the country are going to start requiring autopilot training as part of getting a drivers license. Do you think airline pilots don't get trained on how to use and when not to use autopilot? Of course they get trained. Why should it be different on the ground?

Millions of drivers already don't pay attention far greater than 36 seconds a day. Just look around on the road at people texting and driving and doing god knows what.

 

[Max*]

I've responded to that here already: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/55940-Will-Autopilot-force-other-manufacturers-to-accelerate-truly-hands-off-auto-steer

Makes no sense to discuss it in several threads simultaneously. Mercedes introduced the "nag" for exactly this reason.

I saw, I deleted the comment here already.

 

[wk057]

I disagree that autopilot increases reaction time at all when used properly. If your hands are on the wheel and you're paying attention, it takes no additional time for you to make a correction.

As for braking, in a non-autopilot vehicle you would have to lift your foot from the accelerator and move it to the brake pedal and press. With autopilot I cut out the first part and just press the brake with my foot that is right there.

Even with hands off the wheel I don't think reaction time is affected much, if at all. In one of my interstate drives I was completely hands off and the car in front of me (following distance setting of 4) ran over a piece of road debris (tire piece) that kicked up at me and I still was easily able to check if I could safely dodge it by jumping to the other lane and grab the wheel to do so without issue, just as I would have if I had been driving normally.

Looking through my video 60 FPS footage of similar situations, it takes me less than 90ms to get my hands back on the wheel from my lap AND move the wheel to the direction needed for the correction. I don't have non-autopilot footage to compare to, but I've got to believe that 90ms is well within the realm of normal correction time.

 

[jaguar36]

Tesla clearly knew this would be ripe for lawsuits when they introduced it. I'm sure they've talked to their lawyers and are confident in their position. I'm sure there will be some lawsuits but Tesla should have planned on this and will surely have already calculated how much they think they will cost. Nothing that has been shown since the release has been a surprise.

Therefore there is no reason to think that they will change there mind and pull it.